Category Archives: Ministry

Partnering with God: A Ministry Leader’s Guide

14 Tuesday Oct 2025

Posted by in Christian Living, Ministry

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This post is written with ministry leaders in mind. As I am using ministry leader here, I have anyone from an ordained clergy person all the way to a lay person who is leading or doing ministry in any way at all. 

If you are trying to be faithful and be used by God in some way in the world, this is for you. I hope it helps you understand one key aspect of ministry that I have never heard anyone talk about in this way. My hope is that fleshing this out will encourage you to press through the risk that is inherent in ministry and remind you that you are not alone.

The Gospel Is Really Real

I did not grow up going to church. I had a typical evangelical conversion experience when I was in 8th grade. This meant that I came to believe that Jesus Christ had died for my sins and that he was willing to forgive me of all my past sins if I gave my life to him. Unpacking this would be a post of its own. Maybe someday.

For now, I want to say that there was something about my conversion that had an innocence and simplicity about it. I both really believed I was called to give my life fully and completely to Jesus and was aware that I did not know how to do this. 

I read the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 5:48 was fascinating to me: “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Over the next decade or so, I discovered that most American Christians found the expansive, demanding, and what seemed to me all-encompassing nature of the moral vision of the New Testament to be largely irrelevant. It was almost like an inside joke: You had to be there to understand it. And, well, basically don’t worry about it too much. It isn’t really how we have to live.

This, by the way, is why I am so drawn to Dallas Willard’s work. Willard was an anonymous mentor whose work gave me permission to take the New Testament vision seriously on its own terms and hope that Jesus really could save me from the condition of sin and the frustrating consistency with which I committed individual sins. (If you haven’t read Willard’s Divine Conspiracy, you should. It is demanding but it is one of those books that is worth struggling with.)

Here is the point I need to make for the rest of this post to make sense: At some level that I could not articulate for a long time, I knew that the Gospel was really real. Faith in Jesus was supposed to change everything, even if it hadn’t yet.

Over the years, I also came to have an increased sense that a relationship with the Triune God also meant that in some mysterious way he wanted to partner with me to change the way things are in the world.

Can I give you just one example from the Gospels?

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. (John 14:12-14)

If that doesn’t awaken your imagination for what is possible through belief in Christ in this life, probably nothing will.

From Theological Buffet Line to Making Truth Claims I’d Stake My Life On

In seminary, I was initially overwhelmed by the post-modern confusion of the mainline seminary I attended. It felt like basic Christian doctrine was like a buffet line. If you like broccoli, take it. If you don’t like it, just leave it. Don’t worry about it too much either way. Except, in this case, “broccoli” might be something more substantial like the divinity of Jesus, or the resurrection of Jesus.

I remember feeling deeply frustrated one day as it just became obvious to me that I could not succeed as a pastor by “living the questions” or whatever nonsense I was being offered at the time. I had a basic understanding that I needed to make truth claims I was willing to stake my life on and that I believed others should build their lives on as well.

The place where I began to feel like I was making some headway was when I took Methodist History and Doctrine in seminary. In that class, I read about John Wesley’s rigorous and disciplined approach to the Christian life that was combined with what I’ve come to refer to as an audacious optimism that the grace of God is sufficient to break every chain in our lives, to free us entirely from the grip of sin on our lives.

There may be a bewildering array of ways to think about being a Christian broadly conceived. But, as a seminary student in my early 20s, I thought I could at least speak with confidence about what it means to follow Jesus in the Wesleyan theological tradition. I felt like there was a there there. (The irony is that over the following 15 years, I had a front-row seat to the collapse of Methodism.)

The Holy Spirit Works Through Us

All of this was background to recently being able to articulate something simple but extremely important.

As I came to faith and initially grew in my faith, I had a basic belief that God is alive and active. I believed the Lord is involved in the world he has created. I don’t think I could have articulated it well, and it still often feels like sand falling between my fingers when I try to nail it down systematically, but there was a clear conviction that the Holy Spirit wants to use me or partner with me to do his work in the world. Somehow, God does not need me to accomplish his purposes and also delights in my desire to be used by him. 

The Hardest Thing to Do in Ministry Is Hold Space for God to Do What Only He Can Do

Here is what I’m building to: I have learned that the hardest thing I do in ministry is hold space for God to do what only he can do. I am also certain that this is the most important work that I do. I think this is the most important work anyone does in ministry.

It is hard because it is always vulnerable, and it always involves risk. It is vulnerable for me because I have come to a place of conviction that must be named. “I believe God wants to do something right now.” 

And I might be wrong. 

The only way to know if I’m right is to take the risk. And then I have to wait for two things:

1. Does anyone respond?

2. Does God do what I have said I believe he wants to do?

This is vulnerable because it is when I am most aware that I am not in control and I am not God. I know I can preach a sermon that will not completely embarrass myself, at least most of the time. I have quite a bit of control of that. But I also know that I want to see the fire of God more than I want to give a careful sermon or play it safe and just do what I can do in my own strength.

I know that what I am able to give is nowhere near sufficient for the needs of, well, anyone.

I know this because I know my own need for the Triune God himself to meet me with his grace and empowering presence.

I stumbled through this for several years, saying things like: “We need to write checks that will bounce, unless God makes them good.” (I know. No one writes checks anymore.)

This Takes Work!

If you want to be part of ministry that makes a difference for eternity, you have to connect with the Lord in a way that goes beyond your natural ability and giftedness. You have to develop a prayer life, struggle to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit, and risk saying publicly what you believe you have heard.

And then you have to hold space for people to respond and for the Lord to move.

I think doing this is the most important work in ministry and doing it well is one of the key markers of mature Christian leadership. 

Discerning the voice of the Holy Spirit takes practice. And I think it is a skill everyone who is in Christ can learn.

It also has never stopped feeling vulnerable and risky to me. 

This summer, I preached a sermon at Asbury Church, where I sensed the Lord wanted me to invite people to be anointed to do the works Jesus does. I was preaching John 14:12-18, part of which I cited above. I was as confident as I could be that the Lord wanted me to give this invitation. And yet, the moment inevitably came when I had to take the risk and see whether anyone would respond and whether the Lord would move. (You can watch the sermon here.)

The Lord moved in a powerful way. Many people who were present that day said they felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in a special and remarkable way.

It was awesome!

And it is one of the most recent instances of a pattern I’ve noticed.

I have a conviction God wants to move in a particular way. And he wants to use me to speak that to his people. I get to decide whether to speak or not. And then his people get to decide whether they will respond or not. And then those who respond get to see what the Lord will do.

This Never Gets Old and It Never Gets Easy

It never gets old. This space is where I feel the most alive and fulfilled. And it also never stops being challenging in the moment. 

If this is new to you, start small. Ask the Lord for a word for someone you are talking to in a private conversation. Or, pray for someone in private and ask for a word to encourage them. If you sense something, take a risk and share it. Ask them if it makes sense or lands. Taking these kinds of low stakes risks will help tune you in to the Lord’s voice. You may miss it sometimes. You will also begin to experience the Lord himself moving through you to encourage others. And both of you will be so encouraged.

One of the reasons I think this has always been challenging for me is because I am not in charge. If it were easy, or I had a guarantee that I wouldn’t be embarrassed on the front end, then I would be ministering in my own strength. And that is not what I want. 

What a privilege that the Lord wants to partner with us!

I have so much to learn. But at this stage in my life, I think I have learned some things. And this is why I think holding space for God to move is the both the most challenging and the most rewarding part of ministry.

I hope this helps you and is an encouragement to keep wrestling to hold space for the Lord to do what only he can do in the places where you are in ministry.

God bless you!

P.S. Don’t forget to register for the next Underground Seminary event we are having at Asbury with Rev. Andrew Forrest on his new book Love Goes First. It is going to be so fun! Details here.

Kevin M. Watson is a Pastor and the Senior Director of Christian Formation at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. He is also on the faculty at Asbury Theological Seminary, anchoring the Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States. Affiliate links, which help support my work, used in this post.

Underground Seminary: Love Goes First with Rev. Andrew Forrest

08 Wednesday Oct 2025

Posted by in Book Review, Christian Living, Ministry, Underground Seminary

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Underground Seminary is back! 

The first events we have done have been so fun! And I am more excited about this conversation than any that we’ve had yet. I can’t wait!

Francis Asbury statue at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK

What is Underground Seminary?

There are some things that don’t fit in courses I teach, or perhaps even in the seminary curriculum at all, that people preparing to lead in the local church need to wrestle with, think about, or just have someone tell them. There are also conversations that I want to have with people who are preparing to in the church that I think will be helpful to them and I don’t know where they would fit in specific classes.

In my role for Asbury Church, I’m still interested in shaping pastors. So, I have been working on optional, not-for-credit, opportunities that typically come alongside classes I am teaching for Asbury Theological Seminary. I’m calling these special events “Underground Seminary.”

Underground Seminary is for people preparing to lead in the church who are hungry to learn and grow. They want to gain as much wisdom and experience as they can from as many different places as possible as they are prepared and equipped to lead.

I’m most excited to work with people who know God has more for them and they are going after it. Underground Seminary is for these people.

Our next Underground Seminary meeting:

Rev. Andrew Forrest, Asbury Church’s senior pastor, will lead our next Underground Seminary on his new book Love Goes First.

Yesterday was the official release date for Love Goes First. I believe in the message of this book and I am really excited for this book to be out in the world. (If you can’t make it to this event, you should still buy the book!)

I wrote a review of the book, last week. Here is an excerpt from my review:

Here is the unique challenge facing the American church today: For the first time ever, we are faced with reaching a culture that has been exposed to the gospel and is largely built on Christian foundations but is now post-Christian. As Forrest puts it, “It is certainly nothing new for the church to be hated… but it is unprecedented for the church to be hated by a culture that once used to honor and respect it.” (8-9)

And so, Love Goes First is “about how we, as American Christians, can reach the people who believe we are the problem, those who hate us and all we stand for.” (7)

Here is the big idea of the book: 

“If you want to change the world, you have to go first, because love goes first.” (10)

Read the review here.

Andrew is a brilliant strategic thinker about the local church and its role in the world. He has boldness and courage that I admire. He is willing to do the deep work it takes to get to clarity about hard things and big ideas.

If you are a pastor or want to be a church leader, Andrew is someone you should learn from. He has a proven track record as a church planter, leader, and pastor.

To give just one example: In his first three years here at Asbury Church, in person attendance has increased by nearly 25%.

This Underground Seminary gives you the opportunity to hear from Andrew in a smaller more intimate setting than the places he typically speaks. I think this will be challenging, convicting, and fun.

How to join us:

This Underground Seminary will be Thursday November 6th from 12:00 – 2:30pm here at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. Those who register will receive lunch and a copy of Love Goes First. Registration is $10. You can register by emailing amiller@asburytulsa.org. You will receive details on the exact location after you register. Deadline to RSVP is October 30th. 

This event is sponsored by Asbury Church. This should be obvious, but lunch and a copy of the book will cost the church more than $10 per person – the book itself is currently $18.78 on Amazon. The point of having a cost of registration is that when people have skin in the game, they tend to follow through and show up. In other words, you can get a copy of the book for basically half price and a free lunch! The church is not making money off of this event. Rather, we are investing in you because we are committed to raising up the next generation of leaders for the church.

There is a lot of mystery and chance in the world of publishing. It is very difficult to predict the success of a new publication. I don’t know if Love Goes First will get the kind of boost needed for it to become a spectacular commercial success. I do know it is the rare book that is worthy of a wide reading. Love Goes First is on the short list of the most important books I’ve read in my ministry career. I think this book is going to be a catalyst for bringing together a new network of Christian leaders who are willing to step into the unknown and risk everything for the Gospel for such a time as this.

Let’s go!

Kevin M. Watson is a Pastor and the Senior Director of Christian Formation at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. He is also on the faculty at Asbury Theological Seminary, anchoring the Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States. Affiliate links, which help support my work, used in this post.

Reflections on Teaching and Learning at Asbury

24 Thursday Apr 2025

Posted by in Life, Methodist History, Ministry, Teaching, Underground Seminary

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I have previously shared here about my conviction that the culture or atmosphere of the classes I teach is more important than being sure I say all the words I want to say or get all the content in before the class ends. 

I am not sure I always get this right. Actually, I’m sure I don’t always get this right. 

However, I am increasingly confident that students are most impacted by the things that happen in my classes because I intentionally create an atmosphere that is open to the Holy Spirit than they are by the lectures that I give. And maybe even more than that, I find that students are more willing to listen to what I have to say when they are convinced that I care about them. So, I think that prioritizing the culture or atmosphere of classes I teach enhances student learning and engagement with the content of the course.

And I don’t think this goes the other direction.

This week, I’ve found myself reminiscing on the things I saw the Lord do over the past month. I wanted to share a few highlights here.

I taught back-to-back intensives a few weeks ago. And they were such a blessing!

Before my Basic Christian Doctrine class, I put together the second Underground Seminary event. We called it “What They Don’t Teach You in Seminary.” It was led by Rodney Adams, the Executive Director of Asbury Church. Rodney gave a detailed behind the scenes look at how a large church like Asbury is run, the strategic decisions he makes as Executive Director, and the challenges of leading that are particular to a church. (You can read about the original announcement here.)

From my perspective, it was a fantastic success. There were 23 people who came to this meeting, which was immediately before a class that had 16 students. I am encouraged both by such a strong turnout and that the Underground Seminary idea is building energy for what is happening at Asbury-Tulsa. It is energizing to me to have people in the building talking to each other about ministry. I am best at inviting people to things I passionately believe in. Asbury Church is one of those things for me.

During the class itself, I had a sense that the Lord wanted to minister in some ways to the specific people in the room. I am still learning and growing in how to lead and take risks appropriately in this space. These students were so gracious and hungry for Jesus. It was wonderful. The highlight of the weekend for me was checking in with someone at the end of class that I had particularly felt a burden to pray for and they said, “I feel like myself again for the first time in a year.”

Thank you, Jesus!

Several students stayed with members of Asbury Church. On Sunday morning, one of the students ran into the family that had hosted them, and they were so excited to see each other. The hosts sat with the group of students and my family in worship. I was so blessed by such a tangible connection of my church loving my students well and seeing church and academy connected in such a lovely way.

The next week I had another hybrid. First Methodist Church in Tulsa hosted a Holy Spirit Conference that was amazing. I was invited to lead a breakout on spiritual parenting. This is something I have thought a lot about and am passionate about but had not had a chance to teach on to a group of people. I learned a lot in preparing and was challenged and blessed in thinking it through in order to lead the workshop. I drove straight from First Methodist to Asbury to prepare to teach my second intensive in two weeks, The Theology of John Wesley (with 23 students).

I love getting to teach this material. It has been a blessing to systematically read through Wesley’s sermon corpus in a short window of time. (I highly recommend this if you are a leader in a Wesleyan context and have not done this.) The biggest gift for me personally was rereading two great books by one of the academics I most respect, Dr. Kenneth J. Collins. The two books are core texts for The Theology of John Wesley (which is a required class for every major at Asbury Theological Seminary) and I highly recommend them both. Read Collins’s John Wesley: A Theological Journey first to get a sense of Wesley’s life. It is a great book because it unpacks Wesley’s own life and legacy, but from a rich theological lens. 

After you read this, you should read The Theology of John Wesley: Holy Love and the Shape of Grace. In my opinion, this is Collins’s masterpiece. Reading this book in preparation to teach helped me teach with greater clarity than the last time I taught this material. Collins does a masterful job explaining core concepts like justification, the new birth, and entire sanctification. He is fearless in his fidelity to the witness of Scripture and Wesley’s understanding of it.

In addition to this class just being a delight, there were some powerful moments where the Spirit met us. Rev. Graeme Collett, one of the associate pastors at Asbury Church, preached for the Asbury Seminary chapel service on Friday. Graeme has become a good friend and one of the best surprises in our move here to Tulsa. And unlike any sermon I’ve experienced here yet, the Lord gave Graeme a clear word for this specific class at this specific time. (And this is saying something, because we’ve had an embarrassment of riches in terms of the quality of preaching we’ve had in our chapels here!) The highlight was Graeme’s burden to anoint students to remind them of their callings and to seal the work of the Holy Spirit in them. I believe every single person in the room came forward for prayer at some point. Lots of beautiful Holy Spirit tears and ugly crying. It was one of those times you are just aware the Lord is doing deep work in people right before your eyes. I am so thankful for Pastor Graeme’s leadership and for the Spirit’s presence with us in chapel.

We lost track of time and went more than thirty minutes over, but that is one of the special things about these intensives. It didn’t matter! Sometimes people will say in ministry that “the trains have to run on time.” The great thing about the intensives I teach is that there is one train and we’re all on it! So, we got where we were supposed to go when we were supposed to get there.

The second highlight of the Theology of John Wesley hybrid was a word I felt like I got from the Lord on Saturday morning, before the last day of the intensive. As I was praying that morning, I had the impression that the Lord wanted me to start the day by inviting people to share testimonies to what they had seen the Lord do so far in our time together.

I need to admit that this is often hard for me. Sometimes I’m afraid nobody is going to say anything, and it will bomb. I’ve gotten more comfortable holding space as time has gone on, but it is still an area I’m growing in. And I felt that Saturday morning. 

Goodness was I wrong to be concerned. There were so many wonderful testimonies people were ready to share about how the Lord had met them. God is so good!

That part went so well, the Lord nudged me to notice the second thing I had written down as I had been praying that morning: 

“Deliverance?”

In part, I think this came from witnessing a powerful deliverance at the Holy Spirit Conference the Wednesday night before my class started. I also think it came from reflecting on how important deliverance ministry was in John Wesley’s own ministry. (For more on this, see Dr. Peter J. Bellini, Thunderstruck! The Deliverance Ministry of John Wesley Today )

I gave what felt like a pretty timid invitation to receive prayer for deliverance if someone felt like they needed it. I am not going to go into details here for a variety of reasons, except just to say that the Father, again, showed me His desire to communicate with His children. I also experienced the power and authority of Jesus Christ in a deeper way that I don’t think I can adequately express. It was just a blessing.

I have so much to learn. One thing that I have found really helpful is thinking about my classes as laboratories. Here is what that image means to me: in a lab, you do something real but you also reflect on it and can interrogate the experiment itself. So we can meet in a small group in my Wesleyan discipleship class and talk authentically about the state of our souls. And we can also then ask how the conversation felt, what could we do differently? Was there something that felt unhelpful or could have been more helpful? Lowering the stakes and explicitly thinking of the time together in class as a learning environment gives permission to make mistakes and raises the expectation for pursuing excellence. I love that combination.

I’ve seen this with prayer for healing in my classes. I’ve seen this with seeking to hear the Lord’s voice and be guided by the Holy Spirit. And I’ve seen it in lively classroom conversations about deep matters of theology. It is challenging. And it is fun.

I can’t wait to see what the Holy Spirit does next!

P.S. Did you know that I am launching a Fellowship Program at Asbury Church? We are hiring two Fellows that will be paid full-time positions, with benefits. Starting this August. More details about the Fellowship Program and how to apply here.

Announcing Asbury Church’s Fellowship Program: Raising Up the Next Generation of Leaders

15 Tuesday Apr 2025

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I have been waiting to share this with you. I am so pumped! 

With the blessing of the leadership at Asbury Church, I am starting a Fellowship Program. We will hire two Fellows, which will be full-time paid positions, with benefits, starting this August. 

For years, I have had a growing burden to build something that will help raise up the next generation of leaders for the church. I want to build what I would have wanted when I was just getting started in ministry. I was so hungry for mentors and had the hardest time finding them when I was starting out in ministry. 

The Asbury Fellowship Program will be a blessing to the Fellows. The purpose of the Fellowship Program is not to bring people to Asbury Church to serve us. Rather, the purpose is to bring Fellows to Asbury Church so we can serve them.

That does not mean the Fellowship Program will be easy. Growth and development can, at least at times, be painful. The Fellowship Program will be an intentional season of accelerated growth, where Fellows are pushed to grow as followers of Jesus Christ.

I am also excited about this because my time in Tulsa, Oklahoma has been such a blessing to me. I love having a foot in Asbury Theological Seminary’s Tulsa Extension Site and one on the Asbury Church pastoral team. I love being at Asbury Church. My faith has grown here. I have been strengthened and sharpened here. I am grateful for the leadership of Rev. Andrew Forrest, Asbury Church’s Senior Pastor, and Rodney Adams, the Executive Director.

I am best at inviting people to things I enthusiastically believe in and I enthusiastically believe in what Jesus is doing at Asbury Church!

I believe the Fellowship Program is a crucial strategy in a time of uncertainty and significant change in American Christianity. The Fellowship Program is an intentional investment in in-person formation. I am certain the problems facing the church in our day will not be solved by applying more technology. On the contrary! We need to invest more fully in relationships in enfleshed spaces. The people I have seen really grow and thrive in their lives in Christ all have one thing in common: They are anchored within a family of faith that provides care, nurture, and discipline. And so, Asbury Fellows will move to Tulsa to be fully present here for two years.

Ok, that is why I’m so excited. Here are more details to help you decide if this is right for you:

Who is Asbury Church?

Asbury Church is a conservative evangelical church from the Wesleyan theological heritage in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Asbury has more than 2,500 people in-person in worship on average each week. We are passionate about figuring out how to do discipleship and evangelism with excellence in Negative World.[1] (The “Negative World” framework is integral to the Fellowship Program, so you will want to familiarize yourself with it if you don’t know about it and are trying to discern whether this is right for you.) 

Asbury Church has the kinds of ministry opportunities you would expect of a church of this size: a pre-school, weekly small groups, kids and youth ministry, recovery ministry, and more. We lean into big events like Christmas Eve and Easter, as well as our own made-up holiday – Celebration Sunday! We are a Bible reading church, which is expressed through Bible reading guides and all church Bible Studies (which are roughly once a month during the school year). We also host a seminary extension site (Asbury Theological Seminary, a separate institution) on our property, which reflects our commitment to theological education and raising up the next generation of leaders for the church. Our commitment to education and formation is further seen in our launch of a Classical Christian School (Asbury Classical School) that is in its first year. And we are known in our community for our commitment to missions in and beyond our community.

What is the Asbury Fellows Program?

The Asbury’s Fellows program is a two-year fellowship that will raise up the next generation of leaders in the church and empower gifted young people who sense a calling to the work of the church. Fellows will explore their calling and be strengthened and equipped to lead in Negative World. 

Fellows will also be pressed to grow through mentoring and discipleship. (I am personally most excited about this aspect, which is where I will spend most of my time with the Fellows.) As the Director of the Fellowship Program, I will meet with Fellows weekly for a Wesleyan class meeting experience, one-on-one check-ins, and a monthly book discussion. I love reading and engaging ideas and I want to introduce Fellows to the best books I’ve read on the Christian life, discipleship, the person and work of the Holy Spirit, big ideas about current issues, personal productivity, leadership, and more. The purpose of all of this will be to grow in Christ, ability to lead and disciple others, and be equipped to lead and minister in our changing cultural moment.

Fellows will have a mentor on the Asbury Church staff. They will also receive exposure to every major ministry area at Asbury Church, including Pastoral Ministry, Kids/Students, College/Young Adult, Business Administration, Outreach/Evangelism, Experience, Worship Arts, Communications, and Asbury Classical School. Based on the gifts of the Fellows and the needs of Asbury Church, Fellows will be given ministry assignments and responsibilities.

Asbury Fellows will be present at all worship services (including Wednesday morning communion and Thursday evening), staff chapel, and Wednesday evening discipleship activities, with a “see a need, meet a need” attitude. 

Fellows will also observe leadership meetings, attend the monthly pastor’s Bible Study, assist with pastoral care and visitations, and other experiences that serve the Fellow’s growth and development as a ministry leader.

Who is the Asbury Fellowship Program for?

The Asbury Fellowship Program is ideal for people who have at least one year of full-time seminary experience to recent seminary graduates, who intend to go into local church ministry as their first career. The Fellowship Program is for people who are hungry for more of Jesus, want to grow, desire a deeper understanding and experience of the person and work of the Holy Spirit, and sense a calling to the work of the church. 

Asbury Fellows will be people who love being around Jesus’s church, are excited by the prospect of being immersed in the life of a church for a season, and are eager to serve and participate in the full worshipping life of Asbury Church. Fellows will not only be hungry for more of God, but they will come humble, ready to grow and learn, and be led for a season. 

The Asbury Fellowship Program will be a season of accelerated growth for Fellows in their preparation for leadership and administration of the local church. This Fellowship is for people who know they are called to the local church in some sense but may not be sure which part of the church they are called to. This is for people who know they don’t know everything and want to learn from a large and growing church that believes God has more for everyone and is passionate about pursuing joy individually and corporately. 

Finally, the inaugural class of Asbury Fellows, in particular, will proactively set the culture for the Asbury Fellowship Program by creating a culture of excellence that will benefit all who come after them.

When will it start?

The Asbury Fellows Program will launch in August 2025. To apply email hr@asburytulsa.org by May 14th. Include with your application a resume and statement of interest that explains why you want to be an Asbury Fellow based on our description of who we are, who this program is for, and what you would most hope to receive from this experience.

[1] We believe Aaron Renn’s diagnosis is accurate. The church in the United States is not in Positive World or Neutral World anymore. The dominant culture and elite taste makers overwhelmingly view the teachings of Scripture and those who unapologetically hold to them negatively. For more, see Aaron Renn, Life in the Negative World (Zondervan, 2024) https://amzn.to/4i1PSST (Affiliate link) For the article that led to the book, see Aaron Renn, “The Three Worlds of Evangelicalism” in First Things https://firstthings.com/the-three-worlds-of-evangelicalism/

Life Update and Upcoming Opportunities with Me in Tulsa

20 Thursday Mar 2025

Posted by in Life, Ministry, Sermons, Teaching, Underground Seminary

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I had the privilege of preaching here at Asbury Church last week. At Asbury, we like to say that we are a Bible reading church. And that literally means we are committed to reading Scripture together. We are currently reading through the Gospel of John. Our senior pastor, Rev. Andrew Forrest, writes a daily Bible reading guide that helps us work through the selected book of the Bible we are reading. You can check it out here. (You should also visit his website. You can subscribe there to get the daily readings sent to your inbox.)

When Andrew asked me to preach on John 7, I was immediately grabbed by verses 16-17:

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.” (ESV)

The first time I read it, I just thought: Jesus is saying that if you want to know if his teaching is true, you have to follow it to find out. I sat with that text for weeks (a luxury those of you who preach weekly don’t have). I had a lot of fun with this sermon, particularly with the main illustration, which I think connected better than any illustration I’ve ever used.

You can check it out here.

The next two weeks are my favorite time of the semester. I will have students in Tulsa for my Basic Christian Doctrine hybrid and my Theology of John Wesley hybrid. I get so excited having students come in for these classes. They are like retreats where we get to go deep in the content for the course. More importantly, we get to be present to the Holy Spirit and allow him to lead, direct, connect, and build community in our midst. It is so fun!

If you’re interested in seminary, you should check out Asbury Theological Seminary. You should also move to Tulsa and take classes here.

P.S. Speaking of moving to Tulsa: Asbury Church is launching a Fellowship Program. If you are interested in moving to Tulsa to learn, grow, and be equipped to lead in the church at a conservative, evangelical church from the Wesleyan theological tradition, get ready to apply. (For context: Asbury Church is averaging 2,500+ in in-person [not online] weekly worship attendance.) More details soon!

P.P.S. Rev. Andrew Forrest, Asbury Church’s senior pastor, is leading the next Underground Seminary event. It will be Sunday April 6th after worship from 12:30-3:00pm. The church will provide lunch we would love to have you experience worship with us at 11am. It is also fine if you come from worship at your own church, if you’re in the area. Andrew is going to talk about “The Most Important Distinction in the American Church Today.” I’ve talked with him quite a bit about this material and it is essential for church leaders to be wrestling with. If you misdiagnose the moment we are in, your strategy for evangelism and discipleship will not work. RSVP to Laura.Wilkie@asburyseminary.edu by March 27th. More information on this event in last week’s post.

Kevin M. Watson is Director of Academic Growth and Formation at Asbury Theological Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. He is also Scholar in Residence at Asbury Church. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States. Affiliate links, which help support my work, used in this post.

The Most Important Distinction in the American Church Today: The Next Underground Seminary

12 Wednesday Mar 2025

Posted by in Christian Living, Ministry, Teaching, Underground Seminary

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We are going to have back-to-back Underground Seminary meetings here in Tulsa (March 27 and April 6) and I am pumped!

What is Underground Seminary?

There are some things that don’t fit in courses I teach, or perhaps even in the seminary curriculum at all, that people preparing to lead in the local church need to wrestle with, think about, or just have someone tell them. There are also conversations that I want to have with people who are preparing to in the church that I think will be helpful to them and I don’t know where they would fit in specific classes.

In my role for Asbury Church, I’m still interested in shaping pastors. So, I have been working on optional, not-for-credit, opportunities that typically come alongside classes I am teaching for Asbury Theological Seminary. I’m calling these special events “Underground Seminary.”

Underground Seminary is for people preparing to lead in the church who are hungry to learn and grow. They want to gain as much wisdom and experience as they can from as many different places as possible as they are prepared and equipped to lead.

I’m most excited to work with people who know God has more for them and they are going after it. Underground Seminary is for these people.

Our next Underground Seminary meeting:

Rev. Andrew Forrest, Asbury Church’s senior pastor, will lead our next Underground Seminary. It will be focused on the ways dramatic changes in the broader culture have impacted the church and radically changed the context in which we seek to share the gospel. Andrew will share a diagnosis of the problem facing the church and point to solutions for a way forward.

I’ll let Andrew share more about what he wants to do in this workshop in his own words:

The most important thing for church leaders to know in 2025 is that we are living in what Aaron Renn has called “the negative world.”

Things are different these days. Over the last decade, American culture has changed in ways that have become more hostile to the church and the claims of Christ, the result of which is that a majority of those who hold the keys to power in American society—those in politics, media, and education—have a negative view of Christianity. In light of these changes, I believe that the most important distinction in the American church today is not in the ways we normally categorize the church. The most important distinction in the American church today is between those who recognize we live in “the negative world” and those who have not yet accepted this fact.

This distinction matters because it directly affects our strategies for carrying out the Great Commission. Our mission from Jesus has not changed, and our responsibility to evangelize cannot be avoided. But the strategies we employ to complete that mission need to be constantly shifting, depending on the cultural context. The problem we face today is that many of our strategies for evangelism were developed in and for a previous cultural context, one that was largely positive about Christianity and that saw the Christian faith either something good or at best neutral. But that culture is gone, and it’s time for new strategies. If we keep running our plays out of the old playbook, we are going to lose the game.

I want to talk frankly about how we can lead the church to not only survive in negative world but thrive.  I’m interested in talking to people who are hungry to make a difference and who are not satisfied to keep running plays out of an outmoded playbook.

Andrew is a brilliant strategic thinker about the local church and its role in the world. He has boldness and courage that I admire. He is willing to do the deep work it takes to get to clarity about hard things and big ideas. This is going to be a challenging and convicting conversation. And I think it is going to be a lot of fun. (If you want to know more about “Negative World” check out Aaron Renn’s book. The link is an Amazon affiliate link, which helps support my work.)

How to join us:

This Underground Seminary will be Sunday April 6th following worship Sunday morning. Lunch will be provided, and we will conclude by 3pm. In order to ensure that there is food and space for everyone, you need to RSVP if you would like to attend. We will send the location for the meeting to you after you RSVP by emailing Laura.Wilkie@asburyseminary.edu. Deadline to RSVP is March 28th. 

P.S. It is not too late to register for the March 27th Underground Seminary with Rodney Adams, which I’m playfully calling “What They Don’t Teach You in Seminary.” Details here.

Kevin M. Watson is Director of Academic Growth and Formation at Asbury Theological Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. He is also Scholar in Residence at Asbury Church. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States.

Ending Well

10 Monday Mar 2025

Posted by in Life, Ministry

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I do not often struggle to keep my composure, but this Sunday March 2 was very emotional for me. 

I was blessed to return to Lamont, OK, for the first time in almost 17. I served as the pastor of the Methodist Church in Lamont from 2005-2008.

In conversations with folks there, we realized that it was very close to exactly 20 years ago that I was seated for my first official appointment as a pastor. I was in my final year of seminary. I got married the summer before and we both knew we wanted to return to Oklahoma to serve. 

I flew to Tulsa, borrowed a car from my parents, and drove two hours to Lamont, OK. I served for three years in Lamont before I started working on my PhD.

I learned so much during those three years. And I made a ton of mistakes! Here are a few of them for your reading pleasure:

  • I accidentally set the church yard on fire when the basket holding a Tiki Torch burned through and fell onto the ground in the hottest part of summer. Praise God, someone noticed, acted quickly and got it put out. But, to my embarrassment, there was a very visible black burned area in the grass everyone had to walk by on their way into VBS the rest of the week.
  • I also preached a six-week sermon series I very creatively titled “Family Matters,” with weeks focusing on things I knew absolutely nothing about from first-hand experience like being a parent or grandparent. Of course, I shared wisdom about marriage from the literally months of experience I had as a husband! (Now, to be fair: I was trying to share wisdom from the Scriptures, not from my own experience. And I believe that preaching from your experience and not Scripture is one of the major mistakes a preacher can make. Nevertheless, that sermon series was probably a bit comical at best, and presumptuous or completely lacking in self-awareness at worst.)
  • And to take the cake, I didn’t see Ash Wednesday coming (I know… not that hard to figure out) and realized too late we didn’t have ashes. So, I attempted to make some by using ashes from someone’s fireplace that I mixed with water. (No idea why I didn’t google this.) It turns out that doing that can cause a chemical burn. Immediately after the service, people were talking about how it kind of burned and their foreheads were hot. Someone said, “I must be particularly sinful, because I feel like my head is on fire.” Eventually, it was clear that everyone needed to wipe the ashes off right away. One poor woman still had a red cross on her forehead on Easter Sunday.

Despite these embarrassing mistakes (and many others I won’t share for time and to protect the identities of the innocent), the people at Lamont Methodist loved me so well.

A current student of mine at the Asbury Theological Seminary Tulsa Extension Site is now the pastor of First Church of Lamont (now a Global Methodist Church). When he invited me to come back to preach, I joyfully accepted.

You don’t often have the opportunity to return to a place 17 years later and feel like you are stepping back into time with so much being as it was when you left. There were people missing, which was sad. I knew they wouldn’t be there, but I felt their absence. There were also new people. Boys and girls when I pastored in Lamont had become men and women. Many of them had married and had children.

The parsonage next door looked the same. The sanctuary, the fellowship hall, and the parlor all looked the same – in the best way. And there were so many people I immediately recognized. Seeing many of them brought tears of joy to me eyes.

When worship started, I was just overwhelmed with the kindness of the Lord and the generosity of these people to me. We sang songs I’ve sung in places where the Lord has blessed me since I left Lamont.

I felt so thankful for the church. Thankful that these people have been doing their part to hold ground through a difficult season. Thankful that they made hard and faithful choices. Thankful that they are still moving forward, aware that God is not done with them yet.

I think the main reason I struggled to keep my composure in worship was that the Lord showed me that we ended well in Lamont. I was able to grieve an ending in a way that felt healthy looking back. And the church blessed us and released us as we left. They gave us a lovely clock that we have hung on the wall in every place we’ve lived since. I was able to appreciate the gift the people of Lamont gave us with such a gracious end more now than I could understand then.

To be honest, I’m not sure I said much that was helpful to the folks in worship on Sunday. I hope they saw my emotions as a sign of my love and gratitude for them. And even more, I hope they were able to see that as a tiny reflection of the Father’s perfect love for them. 

‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the Lord, ‘plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.’ – Jeremiah 29:11

What They Don’t Teach You in Seminary: An Invitation to Underground Seminary

06 Thursday Mar 2025

Posted by in Ministry, Teaching

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I have really enjoyed having my feet in both the church and the academy in my roles here in Tulsa. I am the Director of Academic Growth and Formation at Asbury Theology Seminary, anchored at our Tulsa, OK Extension Site. I am also the Scholar in Residence at Asbury Church. Though they share a connection to the legacy of Francis Asbury, the father of American Methodism, they are separate institutions.

I believe theological education is ultimately for the local church. A seminary should be evaluated based on its graduate’s ability to lead well in the local church. Other outcomes may be appropriate and valuable, but I cannot imagine anything being more central to the legacy of a seminary than the effectiveness of its alumni within the church.

There are some things that don’t fit in courses I teach, or perhaps even in the seminary curriculum at all, that people preparing to lead in the local church need to wrestle with, think about, or just have someone tell them. There are also conversations that I want to have with people who are preparing to be pastors that I think will be helpful to them and I don’t know where they would fit in specific classes.

In my role for Asbury Church, I’m still interested in shaping pastors. So, I have been working on optional, not-for-credit, opportunities for Asbury Theological Seminary students and others that I’m calling “Underground Seminary.”

Underground Seminary is for people preparing to lead in the church who are hungry to learn and grow. They want to gain everything they can from their seminary experience. Some students want to do the least they can to get the most credit possible. And that’s fine. There are seasons where that is appropriate. 

I’m most excited to work with people who know God has more for them and they are going after it. Underground Seminary is for these people.

Our next Underground Seminary meeting is focused on practical details of running a church that they don’t teach you in seminary. It is March 27th from 12-3pm at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. 

Pastors often joke about the things they didn’t teach you in seminary. These are often very practical hands-on aspects of running the life of a church. And that is what this Underground Seminary will focus on: what they don’t teach you in seminary.

Rodney Adams, the Executive Director of Asbury Church, will lead this. And it will focus on strategy, culture, and operations in the day to day running of a church. I have had several conversations about this workshop with Rodney and I believe every church leader would benefit from what Rodney has to share.

In case you don’t already know Rodney, here is why you should want to learn from him:

  • Rodney is a former United States Marine Corps officer. 
  • He worked for a season at a top global investment bank.
  • He has owned and operated his own business.
  • And, most importantly for this discussion, he is currently the Executive Director of Asbury Church.

Asbury is a large church that has 2,500 people in person in weekly worship. In his role, Rodney oversees:

  • 80 full time staff and 60+ part time staff
  • $12.5 million annual budget
  • $12 million foundation
  • 300,000 square foot facilities

Put simply: Rodney know how to run a large church with excellence.

At a personal level, I have never been around an organizational thinker and leader like Rodney. Working with him is fun because I get to see how ideas are actually brought to life. I have an easier time thinking of a thing that would be fun to do in theory. Rodney has great ideas. And he is the person who can take a dream and figure out the steps to make it reality. And, just as important, he can help you realize that an idea won’t work and save time, energy, and frustration.

The goal of Underground Seminary is to bring people hungry for excellence together for content that will equip and prepare them to lead in the church.

This one is going to be fun! 

How to join us:

Lunch will be provided at the beginning of our time together. In order to ensure that there is food and space for everyone, you need to RSVP if you would like to attend. We will send the location for the meeting to you after you RSVP by emailing Laura.Wilkie@asburyseminary.edu. Deadline to RSVP is March 20th. 

Kevin M. Watson is Director of Academic Growth and Formation at Asbury Theological Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. He is also Scholar in Residence at Asbury Church. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States.

Raising Up Next-Gen Church Leaders

21 Friday Feb 2025

Posted by in Christian Living, Ministry, Teaching

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I’m trying to think more clearly about how to raise up the next generation of leaders for the church. It seems clear to me that things are shifting and changing, sometimes dramatically. Institutions are changing and sometimes failing. Key leaders are leaving the scene, sometimes because they have retired or died, and other times because a moral failing has been exposed.

I don’t have it figured out yet. But I want to start talking about it more.

My writing often comes from a burden to figure out what I think about something and then try to communicate it as clearly as I can. I think some of my best writing comes when there are two things working in me:

First, I notice that I am working over a problem in my mind and am working hard to get clear about what I think is at stake (something that seems important and complicated or confusing).

Second, I notice a sense of pressure to not talk about it. This is usually unspoken and intuitive on my part. This means I could be wrong, or I could be seeing things. The pressure to not talk about it can either be because it seems like everyone views something as settled, while I have questions or concerns. Or, silence could come from the sense that speaking out could be problematic in terms of upsetting people in power.

Here are two examples of writing that has come from this:

1. I urged churches to start reopening five months into the Covid-19 pandemic. 

2. I expressed my concerns with the proposal of United Methodist bishops to make affirmation or prohibition of same sex marriage dependent on the surrounding dominant culture. 

Neither of those posts are perfect. In rereading them today, I would say things differently in both. But they both helped me think more clearly about matters that were very important to me (and to the church I was part of) when I wrote them. I am proud of them because I believe the Lord used them to help people think more clearly and make hard decisions during very challenging circumstances.

If you aren’t familiar with my writing, these will give you a sense of it. I hope they show my commitment to telling the truth. Of course, I also make mistakes. One of things I think I have often done well is move a conversation forward and bring clarity where it has gotten bogged down or stuck.

So, I’ve been thinking about raising up the next generation of leaders for Jesus’s church.  I’ve been thinking about this longer than I usually think about the kinds of things I write about here. And to my own frustration, I don’t feel like I’ve made as much progress as I usually would have by this point.

I want to articulate why I think this it is hard. It is important to work to understand the moment in which we find ourselves. And I want to begin by naming two models that have been used to raise up the next generation of leaders for the church. I want to suggest that people in my networks have almost completely missed the importance of the second model. But first, why is this so hard to think through?

The church in the United States is experiencing major challenges due to massive shifts in the culture, academy, and the church herself.

Aaron Renn does a great job talking about the changes in the dominant culture and how it impacts the church. Check out his book Life in the Negative World [Affiliate link]. I also follow his work at aaronrenn.com.

The academy is also undergoing massive change, which includes theological education (the seminaries where pastors are trained). This would be another post, so I won’t unpack this further right now.

And finally, the church herself is undergoing dramatic change. I think most of the changes in the church come from the influence of the first two. Many large non-denominational and congregational churches have also been impacted by the fall from grace of senior leaders of these churches. This has happened enough over the past few years, many feel uneasy in these kinds of churches, even if their own local church has not been directly impacted.

Here is an image I have used to describe what I think is happening:

Tectonic plates are shifting in the culture. When tectonic plates shift, there are earthquakes. There is rumbling. There is shaking. Often major edifices are damaged or even collapse when tectonic plates shift.

I think we are seeing this kind of major disruption and change in the church today.

There have been (at least) two major models for raising up leaders for the church.

I’m sure much more nuance could be added here, so feel free to fill this out in your own thinking or experience. The point here is to get some things in place in order to move forward.

My own experience was largely with the first model. I will call it the ecclesial bureaucracy model. I’ll use my experience to explain it:

I received a calling to ordained ministry through a short-term mission trip to Mexico when I was a junior in college. One short week changed my life in so many ways. By the end of the week, I had a deep sense that there was nothing more fulfilling I could do than give my life in service to the church, by the grace of God. I remember time and time again being stunned by how joyful it was to serve the Lord through the church.

I knew nothing. I had no clue what I was getting myself into. And I made a lot of mistakes along the way.

But there were also a lot of things that were clear and decisions I didn’t really have to make. I was a United Methodist and didn’t question whether I should pursue ordination in the UMC or not.

The blessing of this was that the path forward was clear. The obvious next step was to attend seminary after I graduated from college. I began having conversations with the senior pastor of the church I was attending, who was generous with his time and wisdom. I formally applied to become a “certified candidate” during my first year of seminary.

I did not have a long-term relationship with the same local church throughout my time in the ordination process. I moved quite a bit from my freshman year of high school through seminary.

So to summarize: Once I felt a calling to ministry, I basically got on a moving walkway where the next step was fairly clear. And if I was approved for ordination by denominational authorities, I would also be appointed to pastor in a local church. If approved for ordination, I would, literally, be guaranteed an appointment (a pastoral position in a local church).

I think there are strengths and weaknesses of this model. And they could be done better or worse than it was done in the UMC when I went through the process. When I was teaching United Methodist polity, I used to tell students that the number one value of the UMC ordination process appeared to me to be persistence. If you kept going, you would almost certainly be ordained. 

(This was most evident to me when someone in the conference I was ordained in clearly revealed that they did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus. They were not discontinued or removed from the process at that point. They were deferred and had to rewrite and repeat the interview process the next year. They were then approved and ordained. Is it more likely this person’s views on the bodily resurrection of Jesus changed, or that they found a more acceptable way to present (or cover up) their heretical views?)

The second model I’ll call the apprenticeship model. It was not my experience, so I can’t give as much detail. I think this approach is most common in non-denominational and congregational church polities. For this reason, I also suspect it is less uniform and more organic and relational.

This one is pretty self-explanatory. A person is raised up for leadership in the church by someone who is recognized as an excellent leader in the church. Preparation for ministry comes by being invited to get closer to the senior leader with behind-the-scenes access. Over time, they are given opportunities to lead with the senior leader’s oversight and feedback. And eventually, they are released to lead on their own, though likely with continued oversight or spiritual covering.

Sometimes a person in this system will replace the senior leader when they step down. Depending on the system, they might move to a different context taking on significant leadership responsibilities.

This model is highly relational. The person who is being raised up for leadership in the church spends significant time with the person who is discipling, mentoring, or apprenticing them. It is inefficient in the sense that it requires proximity and a lot of time together. It is also driven by the needs of the person being raised up and so is very contextual and responsive to where they are and how they need to grow. It is also inefficient because one person cannot have this kind of relationship with an unlimited number of people.

Another way to think of this model is to think of Robert Coleman’s Master Plan of Evangelism and other relational discipleship making tools. These are usually focused on discipleship as the goal for all who come to faith in Jesus Christ. It is not surprising that those who are raised up to lead in these kinds of contexts continue to be raised up to lead in this way.

I suspect that very often a sense of calling to lead in the church comes within the context of these discipling relationships.

During the season when I first began to feel a tug to rethink some of my assumptions about how to best raise up leaders for the church, I started getting to know a non-denominational church near where I lived. The folks in this church were very gracious to me and the senior pastor met with me. I wanted to ask him two questions in particular:

How did you get to be in your position? I remember the answer, though it was more fleshed out than just this, because I had heard it from others in the same church family: I lived in Buddy’s basement. 

In other words, the founding pastor invited him to come closer, literally into his home, for a season. And he poured into him and raised him up.

The second question was: Is there anything that I do that can help you and those you are raising up? We developed a degree at Asbury Theological Seminary that came directly out of my conversations with this pastor and the pastor of another large non-denominational church at another place I taught. (Send me an email [scroll down] if you want to know more about it.)

I think both models would be improved by the other.

Non-denominational and congregational churches that don’t require any formal education outside of themselves make themselves vulnerable.

Large denominations that have heavily bureaucratic ordination processes have greater risk in my view.

My working hypothesis is that the most effective pastors in the United States at present came up through more of the apprenticeship model than the ecclesial bureaucracy model. My experience is that almost all of them end up pursuing a seminary education, but it usually comes after they have been leading in meaningful ways in the local church.

So, Now What?

For most established leaders reading this, the action step is most likely to look for people to bring in closer to walk with you and build them up. One of the problems with bureaucratic approaches to ordination is that they are so depersonalized. People don’t grow in self-awareness because the kind of one-on-one conversations that happen in an apprenticeship don’t happen nearly as often.

Here is what I am seeing: I believe the church, particularly healthy large congregations with stable leadership and deep roots, is only going to be more important going forward for the work of raising up leaders for the church. All churches are important in this work. The local church is the ordinary context for hearing a calling to ministry. I think larger churches just have the capacity and the resources to invest in the next generation for their own sake.

I think large churches will develop coaching trees like Nick Saban did at Alabama. People will serve for a season in these churches and experience accelerated growth in a host of ways in these contexts. Some, who can joyfully stay long-term in an associate type of role, will stay for decades. But most will serve for a season, be built up, equipped, and sent out to lead with excellence.

And I have a feeling this will be less dependent on denominational affiliation than it has ever been in the history of Christianity in the United States.

This vision excites me because Asbury Church (where I am) is the kind of church that can do an excellent job of apprenticing people to be excellent leaders.

Asbury is a conservative evangelical church from the Wesleyan theological heritage that averages about 2,500 in person in weekly worship at one campus. At Asbury, intentional and strategic attention is given to the culture of the church. Asbury not only has a great culture, but the senior leaders can tell you why they are doing what they are doing and how to work to set, shift, or move culture. This is so important! And there is a clear emphasis on discipleship. As with our work to build and maintain a great culture, the church can articulate a coherent vision for how we make disciples.

And one of the most unique things about Asbury Church, within the context of this post, is that Asbury has a passion for education. Asbury hosts the Asbury Theological Seminary Tulsa Extension Site on its campus. So, a person preparing to become a pastor could come to Asbury Church and be in seminary here at the same time.

Asbury Church’s commitment to education is also evident in its decision to launch Asbury Classical School this year.

One of the saddest things to me about my time in theological education has been seeing the negative impact a seminary tends to have on local churches in the immediate geographical area of the seminary. At a previous institution, someone commented on the “dead zone” that surrounded the seminary. 

What a gift that I get to teach at a seminary whose mission and values I agree with at a church I am proud to be part of and that I am confident will bless my students.

If you, or someone you know, is wrestling with a calling to ministry, I would love to connect with you. Maybe you should move to Tulsa and see for yourself. I am learning more and more that proximity and time within a relational atmosphere are crucial to raising up the next generation of leaders for the church.

I can’t wait to see what happens next!

Kevin M. Watson is Director of Academic Growth and Formation at Asbury Theological Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. He is also Scholar in Residence at Asbury Church. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States.

My Wesleyan Discipleship Class and What God Is Doing in Tulsa

15 Wednesday Jan 2025

Posted by in Class Meetings, Life, Ministry

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For the first time in my career as a seminary professor, I have had to be concerned about whether the classroom would fit all the students who were signing up to take my class. For the first time, I have had to tell people who wanted to take vacation time off work and pay their own way to travel to Tulsa just to sit in on the class as auditors (which means they get no academic credit!) that I could not let them in the class. 

Oh, and this class is just an elective. 

What is happening?!

A few years ago, I taught a class that was unlike any other I had taught. I have had a handful of great experiences as a seminary professor. But this class was different.

If you had asked me when I was teaching Methodist History at Candler School of Theology, for example, to describe the best class I’d taught, I would have talked about feeling like the students really “got it.” They left the class with a mastery of the key concepts and ideas I wanted them to receive. They were engaged and genuinely interested in the material. And having a better understanding of the meaning of Methodism, they had a deeper commitment to working, by the grace of God, to renew the Wesleyan theological tradition.

And yet, I often felt like something was missing. Or maybe better, it felt like something hadn’t quite come into alignment in terms of what I was trying to do overall.

In the Fall of 2022, I had the opportunity to teach a course that, at the time, I would have said was the best class I had ever taught. But it also occurred during the most painful and confusing time of my life.

On the one hand, I had certainty during the class that exactly what I was wanting to see happen was happening in my students during the class. As a teacher, you don’t always know what is happening with your students. But sometimes you do. Sometimes it is not awesome. And you know it. And sometimes you know that your students are experiencing exactly what you are hoping they experience. And that is so awesome you can’t really appreciate it until it happens, or at least I didn’t know it could be that good until it was.

On the other hand, I found out in the last half of the semester that I had not been selected for a position I had applied for and, as a result, I was being terminated at the end of the semester.

The class was a great experience for me. I loved those students so much. I was thankful I got to finish this class and the other one I was teaching. It was also one of the most gut-wrenching things I’ve ever done.

I walked through it the best I could. I’m sure I made mistakes. I am so thankful for the healing that has happened and continues to happen.

One thing that was really challenging was the sense that I had finally figured something out. It felt like magic in the classroom. And I was gutted that I was not going to get to continue doing the things I had learned that worked.

But God.

The Lord, in his kindness to me, opened a door to teach at Asbury Theological Seminary, the school I’d been yearning for more connection with for years, in the city (Tulsa, OK) I had been feeling drawn to for years.

Last Spring, I was given the opportunity to teach this same class again for Asbury at our main campus in Wilmore, KY. Seven students enrolled in a class that was brand new and not even in the ATS catalogue yet. I was so thankful to get to teach again. 

My second time through the class showed me that the previous class was not a fluke. 

The things I learned were repeatable, which is a key principle of disciple-making work.

But looking back I also think there was some spiritual interference. For example, just before the intensive part of the class (where we all gathered for 20 hours of class in 2.5 days), I lost my voice! I mean I really lost my voice, for the first time in my life. It was bizarre. The Lord gave me just enough strength to communicate each day of the intensive and it improved just enough for me to manage to preach in chapel after my class ended before I headed back to Tulsa.

Tomorrow evening, I will start teaching my Wesleyan Discipleship class for the third time. 

And this time 34 students are coming to Tulsa. 

34 students! 

As far as I know, this is the largest class we’ve ever had in Tulsa. And it is an elective.

And I have this deep confidence in my spirit that collectively this class is going to experience the blessing of the Lord’s presence with us.

At every intensive I’ve taught in Tulsa, the Spirit has been present in a powerful way. It has felt to me like Asbury Theological Seminary’s Tulsa Extension Site is a laboratory of the Holy Spirit. We dive deep into the content and information of the course, while also actively seeking to experience the things we are learning about. 

A course on Wesleyan Discipleship is tailor made for just that. We will learn about band meetings and class meetings, laying the historical and theological foundation for these core practices. And we will not only learn about the class meeting, we will experience it in a laboratory where we can do the real thing, talk about it, and discuss how we can practice it more effectively.

By the grace of God, we will learn about the stages of growth in faith and how to help people move from being spiritual infants all the way to spiritual parents.

And the Father will be given permission to do whatever He wants to do during our time together.

The past year and a half has been so good. So fun. 

Today, I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve. I cannot wait to see what God does tomorrow and this weekend! 

Please pray for me to teach well and for all of us to be open and receptive to receive what the Spirit has for us!

Thank you, Jesus.

Interested in studying with me in Tulsa? Check out Asbury Theological Seminary here: https://asburyseminary.edu