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Kevin M. Watson

Category Archives: Wesley

Hearing from a 21st Century Class Leader (Part 2)

22 Tuesday Feb 2011

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Accountability, Christian Living, Ministry, Wesley

≈ 5 Comments

Tags

21st Century Class Meeting, Christian formation, class meeting, Nick Weatherford, small groups

This post is the second post in a series within a series. Broadly, it is a continuation of my series of posts on the Methodist class meeting for the twenty-first century. (Click here for a link to the last general post in this series, which also contains a link to an outline of the rest of the series.) More specifically, this is the second post in a series written by Nick Weatherford, who is a member of Munger Place Church and a leader of a Kitchen Group, which is a 21st century class meeting. This series will allow you to hear directly from a lay person who is currently leading a class meeting. In the first post, Nick shared his story with you and talked about the role that being in a class meeting played in his recommitting to a life of Christian discipleship. In this post, Nick talks about the impact that leading a Kitchen Group has had on his faith. The third post discusses the impact that Nick believes that these groups are having on Munger Place. In the final post, Nick talks about the impact that he thinks reclaiming the class meeting for the 21st century would have on contemporary United Methodism. I deeply appreciate the time that Nick has taken in writing this series of posts, which will appear throughout the course of this week. He has agreed to follow the discussion and interact with any comments or questions that you may have, so I hope you will take advantage of the opportunity to interact with Nick.

What impact has leading a group had on me and my Christian faith?

Leading a kitchen group has helped me to recognize that the Holy Spirit is active and is always amazing. Only a portion of our meetings revolve around Bible study. I have honestly struggled with that part of our meetings. I was so nervous the first couple of weeks. My voice shook as I stumbled through our lesson. I wanted them to be blessed by this experience the same way that I have been blessed. Christ’s story isn’t contained by whatever text we are studying though. He is present in the lives of our group members today and we need to hear that story as well. Each believer, strong or struggling, new to the faith or old, brings something to the group each week that someone needs to hear.

We pray each week that the Lord will be amongst us and I have come to realize that God is present, and that no matter how much I try to run a good meeting, no matter how eloquent my prayer might be, etc., the success of our groups has nothing to do with the leader at all. The Holy Spirit is truly active in our group, wanting to bless us with his presence. You cannot convince me otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not talking miracles and conversions here. Sometimes it’s the small steps or just the love of someone reaching out and offering some encouragement from shared experience. But I can see it. I see it in the relationships that are being formed, the changes occurring in people’s hearts and the resolve of the group to stick it out this time. I have also learned that people long for honest interactions about their faith, doubts, struggles and triumphs. It is difficult to share stories of our faith in work and often with our friends and families.

– Nick Weatherford

Hearing from a 21st Century Class Leader (Part 1)

21 Monday Feb 2011

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Accountability, Christian Living, Ministry, Wesley

≈ 9 Comments

Tags

21st Century Class Meeting, Christian formation, class meeting, Nick Weatherford, small groups

This post begins a series within a series. Broadly, it is a continuation of my series of posts on the Methodist class meeting for the twenty-first century. (Click here for a link to the previous post which also contains a link to an outline of the rest of the series.) More specifically, this series of posts is written by Nick Weatherford, who is a member of Munger Place Church and a leader of a Kitchen Group, which is a 21st century class meeting. The rest of this post and the next three posts will allow you to hear directly from a lay person who is currently leading a class meeting. In this first (and longest) post, Nick shares his story with you and talks about the role that being in a class meeting has played in his recommitting to a life of Christian discipleship. In the second post, Nick talks about the impact that leading a Kitchen Group has had on his faith. The third post discusses the impact that Nick believes that these groups are having on Munger Place. In the final post, Nick talks about the impact that he thinks reclaiming the class meeting for the 21st century would have on contemporary United Methodism. I deeply appreciate the time that Nick has taken in writing this series of posts, which will appear throughout the course of this week. He has agreed to follow the discussion and interact with any comments or questions that you may have, so I hope you will take advantage of the opportunity to interact with Nick.

A couple of weeks ago my friend Kevin Watson asked me to contribute a guest post about my experiences in Munger Place small groups to his blog. I must confess that I have been finding excuses not to get started. I have not written about my faith in quite some time and I want to do his great blog justice. Lately, I could talk to you about these things for hours, but putting them down on paper is something entirely different.

First, I thought a little background might be relevant here. I grew up in the church, particularly in the Baptist tradition here in Dallas, TX. I also attended a Christian school here. Therefore, faith was also part of the social structure of my life. It affected my standing at school and I felt like I was always under a microscope. There was pressure to talk the talk. My senior year of high school, I was not required to go to church any longer. Perhaps my mother had hoped that I would desire to go by my own will, but it didn’t happen. I figured I had had enough church: I got it. I didn’t discount it completely but my new found independence did not include anything to do with regular attendance at church. Still, I went off to college counting myself among the faithful. I can’t tell you at what point I started treating Jesus like that friend from childhood that you just didn’t want hanging around anymore, but it happened almost unconsciously for a variety of reasons I’m not exploring here. Anyway, I figured I had it down. I must not need my faith because everything is going great. Besides, I don’t really want to let people in on my little faith secret anyway. I’m having too much fun wrapped up in college and fraternity life. So began my journey through the wilderness of self reliance and self deception. I’ve got the job, the right friends, the house and the car. Weekends are booked. All is well. I was content with those things for awhile. Life was exactly as it was supposed to be. Then, the emptiness started to set in. My answers and my “things” left me feeling spiritually bankrupt. I was empty and aching.

I confess my first attempts to get back into a church were met with the same reluctance that I have felt about starting this blog post. I didn’t really know where to begin again. I dared to pray about it. My brother and his fiancé had been going to the Cornerstone service at Highland Park United Methodist Church. I figured I could tag along safely with them. Well, soon after that I heard about the Munger Place campus that was being started in East Dallas. Then I met the campus pastor Andrew Forrest at the open house. Next thing you know I’m nervously waiting in the car before going up to knock on the door at my first small group meeting (at Munger we call them “Kitchen Groups”).

What has being involved in a small group done for my own Christian faith?

I have come to realize the importance of being called into community with one another and of God’s unrelenting grace. We are not asked to, or intended to do this alone. I would argue from personal experience that our faith will wither away over time if we are not proactively involving ourselves in community with other believers.

I didn’t know what to expect when I arrived for my first meeting. We began with a Psalm, a prayer and then a short Bible study. Next, the question was posed, “How is your life in God?” I had never been asked that question before! What was everyone going to say? I was relieved I didn’t have to answer first. After hearing everyone’s responses I was at ease. This was a group of folks, from different backgrounds and experiences, who were not only willing to, but seemed to look forward to sharing the details of their relationship with Christ. There were other ways given to respond to this same question: “Are you further or closer to where you want to be spiritually?” “When did you feel closest and furthest from God this week?” “When did you most feel love this week?”

I don’t remember what I shared that night. I do remember that everyone listened, was honest and real. There was no pressure for me to pretend I had it together or that everything was perfect. The only expectation was that I show up, and that I share if I was willing. I did not have to measure up to anyone’s standard, this group accepted me as I was, where I was, and were genuinely interested in my personal relationship with the Lord.

Perhaps because of my background, I thought being really actively involved in church was something you did when you were on God’s “good side”, when you were in some sort of right relationship with him and following some set of rules. I have learned that all of us, even our pastors and leaders have rough weeks or periods where they question what God’s will is and whether or not they are brave enough to pursue it. Being honest with others about our faith helps us to be open books before God. Experiencing a little bit of grace each week by being accepted by those in our group with all of our messiness and brokenness has been a gift. I often find I hear just the thing I needed to hear whether it is in the form of encouragement, or if I am being pushed a little bit.

I think we are our own worst enemies and toughest critics. If we are not forgiving ourselves and accepting grace from each other, how can we accept the gift that Jesus has freely given us? The Kitchen Group helps me to do that. And, by more deeply understanding His grace I am more eager to dare to be like Him. So, realizing that we all have the same struggles no matter how long we’ve been at this and that faith does not always come easily for all of us has made participation in our church seem more genuine and authentic to me.

Kitchen Groups foster a community of honesty and personal accountability. The accountability comes not in any prescribed set of rules or confessions (this is not group therapy or a 12 step program) but in learning to understand and respond to all of our experiences, good and bad, through the perspective our relationship with God. I think more about my faith than I ever have in my life, asking myself more and more often “how is my life in God”, even outside of the group setting.

Finally, I think the small group experience provides a sort of spiritual checks and balances. Weeks where I have dragged myself to a meeting because I didn’t like anything that I might have to say for myself, I have gained from the group the strength I need to keep trying. Weeks where I can really feel God’s presence, I am sobered by the struggles of my brothers and sisters and I get to do some encouraging.

I think this helps us learn to approach God even in our weakness, to understand our brokenness. I was reminded just last Sunday that we so often resort to our default answers when we interact with people. Even at Church on Sunday. We smile and say we are doing well when we are asked, sweeping whatever might really be going on under the rug. I am guilty of pretending that I have it together even when I am a mess. At small group I am honest. I am forced to reconcile myself to how I am REALLY doing. I read that it saddens God when we don’t believe that we are totally forgiven and are uncomfortable approaching him. I find that in my life, I sometimes have the hardest time forgiving myself. The group experience helps me do more of that each week.

In contemporary churches, there seem to be ample opportunities for Bible studies and programs, but Kitchen Groups don’t follow any particular curriculum. We just ask you to analyze your own experiences through the lens of faith. What has God revealed to you this week? What do you need to work on? What is holding you back? It doesn’t ask you to measure up to any particular standard other than a genuine desire to be more of who you are being called to be as a follower of Jesus.

– Nick Weatherford

Signs of Transformation

20 Thursday Jan 2011

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Blogroll, Christian Living, links, Ministry, Wesley

≈ Leave a comment

Yesterday Sloan Looney posted about the impact that Munger Place Church is having on her life. As someone who is involved at Munger, I was thrilled to read her positive assessment of Munger.

I wanted to link to Sloan’s post here because it isn’t often that a lay person is so pumped about their church that they take the time to write such a thoughtful essay. Sloan is also a member of one of the Munger small groups, which are patterned after the early Methodist class meeting. My hope is that one of the reasons she has experienced such amazing community at Munger is in part because she is meeting weekly with a group of Christians who listen to how things are in her faith journey and whom she listens to as well.

In a time when there is so much hand-wringing amongst leaders in the UMC, I praise God for signs like this that the Holy Spirit is still at work! One person’s life has been so touched by God through the ministries of a brand new UM congregation, that she is willing to put it into words in a public forum. How cool is that?

Thank you, Sloan!

Munger Place – Membership

13 Thursday Jan 2011

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Christian Living, Life, Ministry, Wesley

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

Andrew Forrest, Church Membership, Munger Place


I think Munger Place Church, a congregation of Highland Park UMC, is doing some great things. I want to share a few things I have experienced at Munger that I think could be instructive for the broader United Methodist Church.

A few weeks ago I attended the membership class for Munger with my wife. The class was two hours on a Wednesday night, and there were more than fifty people there – and this was the third membership class! Part of Andrew’s vision for Munger is that he wants it to be a place where everyone is welcomed with open arms on the one hand, but where there are meaningful standards for membership on the other hand.

Incidentally, I am in complete agreement with Andrew here. I think the best way to measure whether a church has meaningful membership standards is whether the average attendance is higher than the membership of the church. My guess is that most United Methodist congregations have a membership that is two times larger than the average weekly worship attendance of the church. When this is the case it reveals that the members of the church do not think something as basic as showing up at church is essential to being a member of the church. As Andrew said in the membership class, this is a model that a health club would love. You could buy one treadmill and have 10 million members!

Currently, Munger Place has four expectations of each person who takes the extra step of becoming a member of the church. 1) Attendance at weekly worship service; 2) Support the church financially with consistent giving; 3) Participate in a weekly small group, which Munger calls Kitchen Groups; 4) Serve others, particularly the last, the least, and the lost.

I appreciated the way Andrew communicated these four expectations in a way that showed that they really were expected of members, but avoided coming across as legalistic of Pharisaic. Andrew also stated explicitly that if people were unsure of whether they were ready to make these commitments, they were welcomed – and encouraged! – to continue to be active in the church without taking the step of becoming a member.

Just exactly how members will be held accountable for keeping these expectations remains to be seen. But Andrew has already raised the standards for the typical United Methodist Church by having a mandatory membership class. And if this Sunday is an indication, I am told that there were about one hundred people who joined the church the first time they were given the opportunity. (I was disappointed to miss worship, as I was in Atlanta for an academic conference.)

I have spoken with a few people who joined the church and have been thrilled to hear how meaningful it was to them. One person talked about how big of a step this was in their life. Another person said that it was so meaningful they had tears of joy as they made their commitment to ministry through and with the church. One person emailed me to celebrate becoming a part of Munger and joining the UMC for the first time. The email concluded, “Go Wesley!”

One of the things that excites me the most about Munger is that I have met several people who are captivated by the Wesleyan vision for the Christian life. These women and men do not have the anxiety about the future of our denomination that many lifelong Methodists have. In fact, they hardly seem to notice the decline, because they are too captivated by the God who is changing their lives.

And if this weren’t enough… this is all happening in a church that was closed because it was no longer financially viable. New life. Resurrection. Thanks be to God!

Published in Methodist Review

06 Thursday Jan 2011

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Article Review, Life, Methodist History, Wesley

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

Band meeting, Early Methodism, Methodist Review, Wesley

For those of you who may be interested in my research on the early Methodist band meeting, I have recently had an article published in Methodist Review an online, peer-reviewed academic journal. The title of my article is “Forerunners of the Early Methodist Band Meeting” and (as the title suggests) it explores the key antecedents that influenced the development of the Wesleyan Methodist bands.

If you want to read the article, you simply have to register with Methodist Review (which is free) and then download the PDF file. Once you register you have access to both vols. 1 and 2 of the journal and can download any or all of the articles that have been published.

The Methodist Class Meeting for the 21st Century: Where Are They Now?

18 Thursday Nov 2010

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Accountability, Christian Living, Methodist History, Ministry, Wesley

≈ 22 Comments

Tags

class meeting

It has been awhile since I have added to my series on the class meeting for the 21st century. (If you have missed this series and want to learn more about the relevance of Wesleyan class meetings for the 21st century, click here for the last post and an outline of the entire series.) I recently received a great question from a reader about my post on the class meeting for the 21st century. The basic question was, Are there Methodist churches that have class meetings? The question is so good, I am going to dedicate a post to it.

The short answer is Yes!

In the Dallas-Fort Worth area I have worked with several ministries about starting something like a contemporary version of the class meeting. Here are three different ministries and the way that they have implemented a 21st century version of the class meeting in their unique contexts:

1. Munger Place Church

Munger Place Church is a congregation that was relaunched by Highland Park United Methodist Church. Public worship began at Munger Place just over a month ago. Munger Place has adopted the class meeting as their basic approach to small groups, which they call “Kitchen Groups.” In the first month as a worshiping congregation, Munger has already had a small group launch that resulted in starting five Kitchen Groups. The leaders for these five groups came from a previous small group that began meeting last spring. My family has been part of the leadership team that helped “relaunch” Munger Place and we have been blessed to be involved with Kitchen Groups as well. I am excited by the way that Andrew Forrest, the campus pastor, has embraced the class meeting model and renamed it. When Andrew talks about membership at Munger Place, he always mentions that part of the expectations of membership include involvement in a Kitchen Group. (One caveat: The link to the Kitchen Group page on the Munger website contains a video that is not specifically about Kitchen Groups. The video was actually made by Cornerstone for their small group ministry, which has a bit different emphasis.)

2. S.M.U. Wesley Foundation

This is an example of a way that a United Methodist campus ministry is implementing a Wesleyan approach to small groups. This year, the Wesley Foundation at Southern Methodist University has started both class meetings and band meetings. Every time I meet with the director, Andy Roberts, and intern from Perkins School of Theology, Robert Perales, I leave energized and excited by the ways that both Andy and Robert are pouring themselves into the students at S.M.U. From the conversations with them, I am coming to see campus ministry as a context that is particularly ripe for Wesleyan forms of communal Christian formation. Andy has recently invited me to speak with the students leaders at the Wesley Foundation over a few weeks in the Spring – I can’t wait!

3. Nexus Community, A Church of the Nazarene

Finally, I was invited by Nexus Community, which at the time was part of Richardson Church of the Nazarene and has since become a new church plant, to share with them about the history of Wesleyan small groups and their contemporary relevance. The last time I spoke with them, I broke the congregation up into small groups and we did a “speed class meeting.” This gave everyone a chance to experience a very abbreviated form of the class meeting and dip their toes in the water of talking about their lives with God. Nexus has since started three class meetings, one meets at the church and two meet in the leaders’ homes.

These are just three examples, and I only know about them because of the ways I have been invited to walk beside them as they begin to reclaim the Wesleyan practice of “watching over one another in love.” Do you know of churches that have 21st century class meetings? Have you been in one? Please leave a comment and share your experience!

Campbell on the Wesleyan Belief in Entire Sanctification

15 Monday Nov 2010

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Book Review, Christian Living, Methodist History, Wesley

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

Christian Perfection, entire sanctification, Ted Campbell, Wesley, Wesleyan Beliefs

In a previous post, I recommended Ted A. Campbell’s Wesleyan Beliefs: Formal and Popular Expressions of the Core Beliefs of Wesleyan Communities. One of the highlights of the book is Campbell’s discussion of the continuing relevance of the Wesleyan doctrine of entire sanctification or Christian perfection. Campbell makes the most persuasive and helpful case for the ongoing value and relevance of the Wesleyan doctrine of entire sanctification that I have read in some time. Here is the key passage:

The doctrine of entire sanctification is a great gift at the heart of historic Wesleyan communities, a gift that, I am inclined to say, Wesleyan Christians could neglect only at the peril of losing what has been the heart of their distinctive beliefs. It is grounded in the consistent biblical mandate that the end (telos) or goal of human existence is complete love for God, and love for our neighbors as the natural concomitant and sign of love for God… I find John Wesley’s twofold rationale for the doctrine of entire sanctification unassailable:
1. God intends that we should love God completely.
2. God can accomplish what God intends.
Once these two points are understood, the doctrine of entire sanctification can be understood as the heart of biblical religion… It creates a space where ancient saintliness can meet modern life and thus it is a gift of grace for the contemporary world. (233)

Amen!

Generation Rising: A Future with Hope for The UMC

08 Monday Nov 2010

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Accountability, Book Review, Christian Living, Methodist History, Ministry, Wesley

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

Christian accountability, Generation Rising, new book, small groups

Andrew Thompson has written a post about a book that Abingdon will be publishing in the Spring, Generation Rising: A Future with Hope for the United Methodist Church. Thompson is the editor of the book, which features chapters from twelve different younger leaders in the UMC about the future of the denomination. (Click on the link to Andrew’s post to see a list of the authors of the various chapters, the titles of each chapter, and the cover of the book.)

I was thrilled to be asked by Andrew to write a chapter on the role of small groups for the future of the UMC. My chapter gives a brief history of the role of “watching over one another in love” through a form of small group accountability in early Methodism. I then explore the relevance of the past for the present by addressing some of the challenges to embracing this Wesleyan communal practice in the 21st century. Ultimately, I argue that a return to such a practice will be essential for the renewal of United Methodism. I see the chapter I wrote for Generation Rising as a key part of what I have been doing here in my series on the relevance of the class meeting for the 21st century. If you have found that conversation to be beneficial, I hope you will read my chapter.

I am excited to be a part of this project, because I am thrilled to be part of a collaborative effort to give voice to what younger leaders in the UMC think is needed in order for United Methodism to have a future with hope. One of my frustrations about efforts to restore vitality to our denomination is that they typically fail to represent the vision or insights of the people who are the future of the church. This project is one attempt by younger folks in United Methodism to share what our sense is of where we are and what the most promising and hopeful way forward is. It is written by people who love the church and are committed to it.

I appreciate Andrew’s vision, initiative and leadership in conceiving this project, and his work to bring it to fruition. I also appreciate Abingdon Press’s recognition of the importance of giving voice to the experience and insights of younger generations within the church. Ultimately, I hope Generation Rising is only the beginning of a broader conversation about the way forward for the church.

Recommended Reading

27 Wednesday Oct 2010

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Book Review, Christian Living, links, Methodist History, Wesley

≈ 4 Comments


I want to recommend three books that I have recently read (in one instance, re-read) and three books that I am really looking forward reading.


Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers is Telling the American Church
by Kenda Dean.

If you are involved in ministry with youth and young adults, you should read this book. If you have children and care about them becoming mature Christians, you should read this book. Oh, and if you care about people in this demographic… you should read this book.

I just finished reading Almost Christian and (as you may be able to tell) I thought it was excellent. Almost Christian chews on the research and data that was released with Christian Smith and Melinda Lundquist Denton’s Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers, which has already made a big splash in conversations about the formation of youth and young adults. I plan on blogging about Dean’s book in the near future, so I won’t say more at this point.


Charles Wesley and the Struggle for Methodist Identity by Gareth Lloyd.

I re-read this book during my time working in the Methodist Archives in Manchester. Gareth Lloyd is also the archivist for the Methodist material in Manchester. Lloyd’s book does two things that are both major contributions to Wesleyan Studies and the history of Methodism. First, he argues that John Wesley’s perspective has dominated the history of Methodism in ways that have distorted the picture. Thus, Charles Wesley and the Struggle for Methodist Identity seeks to begin to restore some balance and bring the picture back into focus. The second contribution of Lloyd’s work is that the book acts as a kind of guide to the primary source material that has all too often been overlooked by Methodist historians. One of Lloyd’s key arguments is that scholarship relating to Charles Wesley is inadequate because it has tended to rely on nineteenth century secondary source material, rather than going back to the original materials. Because of his position at the Rylands, Lloyd is the ideal person to make this case and to provide suggestions as to where key materials are that have yet to be mined.

Warning: The main negative of this book is its price. It is currently only available in hardcover and is $99. (Oh, you can purchase a Kindle version, which is $20 cheaper.)


Wesleyan Beliefs: Formal and Popular Expressions of the Core Beliefs of Wesleyan Communities by Ted A. Campbell.

Finally, Ted A. Campbell’s latest contribution to Wesleyan Studies has just come off the presses. If nothing else, you should read this book because it is endorsed by both Richard P. Heitzenrater and Randy L. Maddox. Maddox’s endorsement suggests that “Campbell’s careful study should put to rest finally the frequent caricature of Methodism as unconcerned about doctrinal beliefs… This is a must-read for scholars of the Wesleyan/Methodist tradition and beyond!”

My brief summary of Campbell’s argument would be that studies of Methodist or Wesleyan doctrine or beliefs have tended to fall into one of two camps. They are either focused on a rigid study of official doctrinal statements or academic contributions from members of these traditions, or they are focused on the opposite extreme of the popular practices and expressions of faith of Wesleyan or Methodist faith communities at particular points in time. In Wesley Beliefs, Campbell aims to bring these two legitimate foci into conversation with one another. In so doing, he finds that the study of official statements of doctrine along with more popular expressions of lay spirituality (such as hymnals, catechisms, and the architectural design of churches) reveal significant harmony.

(Full disclosure: Ted Campbell is my Ph.D. advisor here at S.M.U., so I am perhaps predisposed to think highly of his work.)

Here are three books that I am chomping at the bit to get my hands on, in fact I hope to be able pick up a few this weekend at the American Academy of Religion. Since I have not read them, I will not comment on them any further at this point, except to say that I think they are worth checking out.

The Methodist Experience in America, Vol 1: A History
by Russell E. Richey, Kenneth E. Rowe, and Jean Miller Schmidt

From Aldersgate to Azusa Street: Wesleyan, Holiness, and Pentecostal Visions of the New Creation edited by Henry H. Knight III.

T&T Clark Companion to Methodism edited by Charles Yrigoyen, Jr.

Wesley Didn’t Say It: Set Myself on Fire… Watch Me Burn

06 Monday Sep 2010

Posted by Kevin M. Watson in Methodist History, Wesley

≈ 70 Comments

Tags

John Wesley

John Wesley, credit: Daniel X. O’Neil

Among the words put in John Wesley’s mouth that he did not actually say, perhaps the most common are the following:

I set myself on fire and people come to watch me burn.

or

Catch on fire with enthusiasm and people will come for miles to watch you burn.

Wesley did not say either of these.

But this may be the most persistent quote that is incorrectly attributed to John Wesley.  I updated this post on April 25, 2020, and did a google search for “John Wesley quotes.” The first entry is an answer box that has a list of unattributed John Wesley quotes. Look at the second and fourth entires!

So, if you ask Google for John Wesley quotes, two of the first four it currently gives you are two quotes that he did not actually say.

It is easy to come up with numerous examples of this quote being attributed to Wesley. But what you will not find is a citation of the source where Wesley is supposed to have actually said it.

Inaccurate information spreads rapidly on the internet.

I have been surprised by the anger from some commenters on my series of “Wesley Didn’t Say It” posts. Several people have sarcastically said something like, “Oh, so you were there to hear every word that John Wesley ever said?”

Of course I wasn’t. But no historian thinks we can know what dead people said in conversations that were never recorded or written down. It is impossible to prove that someone never said something.

The standard for attributing words to someone is documentation showing they said it. For John Wesley, this would be published writings like sermons, treatises, and his published Journal or manuscript sources like letters.

I was a PhD student when I first wrote this post, so I checked in with an expert before I hit publish. I emailed noted historian of Wesley and early Methodism, Dr. Richard Heitzenrater. His response was along these lines: You can look for that quote in Wesley as long as you want, you won’t find it.

It troubles me that this quote is so frequently attributed to Wesley. It does not sound like something that Wesley would have said. In the email string that first made me aware of how often this is attributed to Wesley, someone commented that the quote was rather “braggadocious” and as a result did not sound like Wesley. I agree. It would not be characteristic of Wesley to say, “I do something awesome, and as a result people come to look at me.”

Wesley’s desire was not to attract people to himself, but to point them to the risen Lord who was their only hope of salvation.

Wesley didn’t say, “I set myself on fire and people come to watch me burn.” We should stop saying that he did.

You can add this quote to other quotes that are stubbornly connected to John Wesley despite the fact that there is no source that connects them to Wesley’s pen. I have written about several other quotes misattributed to John Wesley:

“Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can.”

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and, in all things, charity.”

“Personal and social holiness“

“Holy conferencing“

“Be present at our table, Lord…“

Do you want to know if Wesley did actually say something that is attributed to him? Check out Did Wesley Really Say That? (Here’s How to Find Out).

Kevin M. Watson teaches, writes, and preaches to empower community, discipleship, and stewardship of our heritage. Connect with Kevin. Get future posts emailed to you. This post was updated on April 25, 2020.

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