Tag Archives: God

Facing Spiritual Opposition in Ministry and What to Do about It

12 Wednesday Nov 2025

Posted by in Christian Living, Life, Ministry, Teaching

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

, , , ,

When you are on the right track, you will often experience harassment, discouragement, or other opposition.

How do you know that this is happening?

When this happens, what should you do?

I want to answer these questions by sharing about my experience teaching the Church History One hybrid, which is the 8th in-person intensive I’ve taught since moving to Tulsa and joining the faculty at Asbury Theological Seminary. This is the in-person part of a hybrid class, where students come to Tulsa for part of 3 days. They are so great. But, can I be honest with you?

Going into this hybrid, I was dragging. I was tired. My energy was low.

In previous posts, I have shared about how hard I work to try to create the right culture in the classes that I teach. I have found that this is by far the most important thing that I do. My work is to be as proactive as I can be to set the right culture, be attentive to it as the class unfolds, and be obedient to what I think the Spirit is wanting to do.

I have shared about this in some detail in this post and especially this post. The latter includes student experience, so don’t miss that.

(By the way, I share about this work here because it is relevant for far more than seminary teaching. Culture is everything.)

I noticed something I hadn’t noticed before after teaching this class. (It came through the wise counsel of a friend.) I often feel opposition going into the intensives when students are on site. On the one hand, there is a lot that goes into these hybrid classes. And I end up teaching for 20 hours at the end of the week during time that I’m usually not working. On the other hand, I think what I experienced last week wasn’t just fatigue or stress.

I believe I experienced harassment and opposition from the enemy.

How do I know? 

First, the way I felt was abnormal. It was not the same feeling as being tired. It was not the same feeling as being upset because something wasn’t going well, or I’d made a mistake. It was not the same feeling as feeling unprepared. It was more chaotic internally than these are for me. It is hard for me to describe this more precisely, but spiritual opposition is chaotic and confused. It can be helpful to zoom out and ask if the words you are using to name the experience are actually how you feel with the experience you are naming.

Second, it was changed by prayer. 

I reached out to a handful of people and asked for prayer on Thursday morning, the day the hybrid began. And the Lord broke through in a wonderful way through these prayers. One of the most effective ways to combat spiritual oppression or harassment is prayer.

Third, I was fasting. I invite students to fast before our class meets. This is spiritually potent. But it also seems to nearly always connect with increased spiritual warfare. This makes sense to me because fasting is intentionally leveling up one’s focus on the things of the Spirit and denying the flesh. The enemy hates this.

Fourth, the Lord moved during my class. This is something that is seen retrospectively, but I think you can notice patterns and be prepared going forward. I have seen the Holy Spirit move in powerful ways at every hybrid I’ve taught. It is not surprising, then, that I would experience some harassment before these classes.

To provide some context, I’d like to share, with their permission, three unsolicited testimonies from students in last week’s hybrid. 

I wanted to let you know of the fruit that has already ripened in my life over the weekend and during the intensive. Thursday you presented us with the words: healing, freedom, and joy. At first I did not know how those words applied to me. Thursday night I felt very joyful taking communion. Friday I shared how God has been bringing up aspects of my life to hand over to Him. This summer there has been tension between sin, little moments in my life, spiritual disciplines, and handing everything over to God. I found that time of prayer over classmates and being able to talk about our walk beneficial. 

Sunday I had an experience where my heart was greatly warmed. I feel the assurance of my sanctification as strongly as I do my salvation. I now realize that healing took place first, which allowed me to experience freedom and joy—joy which I shared with others that day.

Sometimes we plant seeds and do not always get to reap the harvest, so I wanted to share what has been done this weekend. I believe the hybrid did play a hand due to you opening up the room for what the Spirit had to offer. 

My heart is so full, I can barely express my gratitude for the wonderful time of study and fellowship we experienced during the in-person gathering. I learned so much about church history and a lot about myself too. Thank you for providing an atmosphere of worship and prayer. Each element of the weekend satisfied a longing in my spirit to be closer to the Lord and to his people.

Once again thank you for being obedient to the Lord during this fantastic learning and worship experience.

I just wanted to say “thank you” for creating that space for spiritual breakthrough today. I needed it. I’ve come to expect big things in my heart at these, but today was particularly meaningful. Thanks for making these more than simply academic.

These are a blessing to me to read because I know the people who wrote them and I got to see the Lord work in a piece of their story. I am especially touched by the kindness of these students to share with me things I would not have known otherwise (as the second student said so well, “Sometimes we plant seeds and do not always get to reap the harvest”). So generous!

Ok, last indicator that we might be experiencing spiritual warfare: I think it is an indication of spiritual warfare when there is ease in the moment, but there opposition before the moment arrives. I think this is related to anointing. When you are operating in a particular anointing you have, it is typically an easy yoke. You will notice an abnormal impact with ease. I have a friend who uses a phrase I love: It is like falling off a log.

Ok, so there is a description of what I experienced that can help you think about your own experience with more discernment.

The key question is: When this happens, what should you do?

I think the answer is pretty straightforward, actually.

If you are doing something that the Lord consistently blesses and you are experiencing harassment or opposition to it by the enemy, the right thing to do is obvious.

Keep going!

Going into my next hybrid, I am going to have a calm expectation that I will face opposition. I will pretty much do the same things I’ve been doing. They work. 

But I am going to try to do them in the way you prepare to do a hard thing you’ve done before. Knowing it is coming will help me know the rest of what is coming. And contending to see the kinds of testimonies I’ve seen from students preparing to lead in Christ’s church is worth it!

So, when you experience discouragement, opposition, or various trials and tribulations when you are doing the Lord’s work and there is consistently fruit, do not quit. 

Keep going. 

One step at a time.

P.S. I am teaching two classes at Asbury Seminary in Tulsa this coming Spring. Both classes are hybrid classes, which means you only have to be on-site in Tulsa for three days for the entire class (the rest is online). I am teaching a class on Basic Christian Doctrine March 5-7, 2026. And I am teaching a class on Wesleyan Discipleship March 26-28, 2026. They are worth taking in their own rite. But they also meet ordination requirements for various denominations, including the Global Methodist Church’s new ordination requirement for a class in Wesleyan Discipleship. I love getting to teach from my research and publishing on Wesleyan small groups like the class and band meeting. And this class is not only about the ideas but equipping to do them. It is so fun! Don’t miss it. (For more information, click here, scroll down, and shoot me an email.)

P.P.S. The Wesleyan Discipleship class is going to be especially fun because Asbury Theological Seminary’s President, Dr. David Watson, is going to be preaching for our chapel service during class. We’re also working on an Underground Seminary with President Watson. We wrote a book together. I can’t wait to share more about this!

Kevin M. Watson is a Pastor and the Senior Director of Christian Formation at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. He is also on the faculty at Asbury Theological Seminary, anchoring the Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States. Affiliate links, which help support my work, used in this post.

The Role of Pastors: Honesty and Emotional Intelligence

05 Wednesday Nov 2025

Posted by in Life, Ministry, Teaching, Underground Seminary

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

, , , , , , , , , , ,

A quick update this week and a short thought I wanted to share:

My CH501 Church History One Hybrid Is Meeting in Tulsa This Week!

Francis Asbury statue at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK

This week is my favorite week of the semester. The students for my CH501 Church History One class are coming to Tulsa for our in-person intensive. We will have 20 hours of class time together over 2.5 days. (We will also have an Underground Seminary event with Rev. Andrew Forrest, Asbury Church’s Senior Pastor, this Thursday right before class begins. This is going to be such a blessing to students! Details here.)

I work hard to set a healthy culture that is open to the person and work of the Holy Spirit. I wrote about exactly what I do for that here. I think this work has been the most significant growth I’ve experienced during my time in Tulsa so far. Culture is everything!

Much of the work that I am doing is to enable the class together to be open to what God wants to do in our midst while we are together. Because I have seen the Lord do cool things in these hybrids, I carry a sense of anticipation and expectation for these classes when they meet. I also experience a tension when I hold space for the Lord to move. I often have a sense of what the Lord wants to do and also a profound awareness that I am not in control of what the Holy Spirit does or whether people are open to responding. By the way, I think holding this tension is one of the hardest and most important things you do in ministry. 

All this is to say, I would be grateful for your prayers for this class. Please ask the Lord to enable me to think clearly, teach faithfully, hear what the Lord wants to do, and respond accordingly. Please pray for students to have safe and smooth travel to Tulsa. And pray for all of us to be fully present to Jesus during our time together. Thank you!

A Thought I often Have about the Difference between Pastors and Physicians

I am interested in the different ways various generations experience the world. This would quickly become a different post, but one way I have been marked through the culture, church, and leadership around me that I experienced is a hunger for leaders in the church who tell the truth with conviction and appropriate emotional intelligence.

I am not talking about saying a hard truth to someone in a way that is callous and hurtful for no good reason. And I am not encouraging saying something with the intention of hurting them or giving offense. That is not what I mean here.

I’d like to share an image I often use in teaching to illustrate what I’m talking about: the difference between pastors and physicians.

Let’s start with physicians:

If I go to the doctor and a test returns very bad news, what happens?

The doctor will tell me the truth in a straightforward and clear way, every single time. 

In fact, if the doctor hid a diagnosis to protect my feelings, they could be sued for malpractice.

I am not a medical doctor. But I imagine that having to tell someone that they have inoperable cancer is very difficult. The response the patient has to receiving the news is hard to watch. And though the doctor has not caused the diagnosis, they are the one who is making it known.

But doctors tell the truth, whether they like the truth they have to share or not.

Now, consider pastors:

If a pastor is engaging with someone who is in denial about the impact their beliefs or behavior is having on their life, what do they do?

Well, it seems to me this varies quite a bit.

There are so many different areas of this we could explore. Pastoral care is subjective in a way that a cancer diagnosis or lab result is not, for example. I want to lay the ambiguity aside for the moment. I want to talk about when a pastor knows in their gut something about the person in front of them.

I know myself the temptation to not tell the truth about what I see because I am worried about their feelings. They won’t like what I say. Or, they won’t like me because I made them feel bad.

One common image used to describe pastoral work in the previous eras is “the cure of souls.” If pastors are unwilling to tell the truth to people they are pastoring, their work to cure souls is certain to fail.

This is hard work. I am not saying it is easy. But it is essential for the future health of the church.

I am asking the Lord to raise up a generation of leaders for the church who are so desperate to see people healed and made well through faith in Christ that they become more like physicians.

May the Lord give his shepherds strength and courage to call people to repentance when it is needed, so they can turn around, fight against sin and Satan, and find fresh victory in Jesus.

Kevin M. Watson is a Pastor and the Senior Director of Christian Formation at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. He is also on the faculty at Asbury Theological Seminary, anchoring the Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States. Affiliate links, which help support my work, used in this post.

Partnering with God: A Ministry Leader’s Guide

14 Tuesday Oct 2025

Posted by in Christian Living, Ministry

≈ 1 Comment

Tags

, , , ,

This post is written with ministry leaders in mind. As I am using ministry leader here, I have anyone from an ordained clergy person all the way to a lay person who is leading or doing ministry in any way at all. 

If you are trying to be faithful and be used by God in some way in the world, this is for you. I hope it helps you understand one key aspect of ministry that I have never heard anyone talk about in this way. My hope is that fleshing this out will encourage you to press through the risk that is inherent in ministry and remind you that you are not alone.

The Gospel Is Really Real

I did not grow up going to church. I had a typical evangelical conversion experience when I was in 8th grade. This meant that I came to believe that Jesus Christ had died for my sins and that he was willing to forgive me of all my past sins if I gave my life to him. Unpacking this would be a post of its own. Maybe someday.

For now, I want to say that there was something about my conversion that had an innocence and simplicity about it. I both really believed I was called to give my life fully and completely to Jesus and was aware that I did not know how to do this. 

I read the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 5:48 was fascinating to me: “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Over the next decade or so, I discovered that most American Christians found the expansive, demanding, and what seemed to me all-encompassing nature of the moral vision of the New Testament to be largely irrelevant. It was almost like an inside joke: You had to be there to understand it. And, well, basically don’t worry about it too much. It isn’t really how we have to live.

This, by the way, is why I am so drawn to Dallas Willard’s work. Willard was an anonymous mentor whose work gave me permission to take the New Testament vision seriously on its own terms and hope that Jesus really could save me from the condition of sin and the frustrating consistency with which I committed individual sins. (If you haven’t read Willard’s Divine Conspiracy, you should. It is demanding but it is one of those books that is worth struggling with.)

Here is the point I need to make for the rest of this post to make sense: At some level that I could not articulate for a long time, I knew that the Gospel was really real. Faith in Jesus was supposed to change everything, even if it hadn’t yet.

Over the years, I also came to have an increased sense that a relationship with the Triune God also meant that in some mysterious way he wanted to partner with me to change the way things are in the world.

Can I give you just one example from the Gospels?

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. (John 14:12-14)

If that doesn’t awaken your imagination for what is possible through belief in Christ in this life, probably nothing will.

From Theological Buffet Line to Making Truth Claims I’d Stake My Life On

In seminary, I was initially overwhelmed by the post-modern confusion of the mainline seminary I attended. It felt like basic Christian doctrine was like a buffet line. If you like broccoli, take it. If you don’t like it, just leave it. Don’t worry about it too much either way. Except, in this case, “broccoli” might be something more substantial like the divinity of Jesus, or the resurrection of Jesus.

I remember feeling deeply frustrated one day as it just became obvious to me that I could not succeed as a pastor by “living the questions” or whatever nonsense I was being offered at the time. I had a basic understanding that I needed to make truth claims I was willing to stake my life on and that I believed others should build their lives on as well.

The place where I began to feel like I was making some headway was when I took Methodist History and Doctrine in seminary. In that class, I read about John Wesley’s rigorous and disciplined approach to the Christian life that was combined with what I’ve come to refer to as an audacious optimism that the grace of God is sufficient to break every chain in our lives, to free us entirely from the grip of sin on our lives.

There may be a bewildering array of ways to think about being a Christian broadly conceived. But, as a seminary student in my early 20s, I thought I could at least speak with confidence about what it means to follow Jesus in the Wesleyan theological tradition. I felt like there was a there there. (The irony is that over the following 15 years, I had a front-row seat to the collapse of Methodism.)

The Holy Spirit Works Through Us

All of this was background to recently being able to articulate something simple but extremely important.

As I came to faith and initially grew in my faith, I had a basic belief that God is alive and active. I believed the Lord is involved in the world he has created. I don’t think I could have articulated it well, and it still often feels like sand falling between my fingers when I try to nail it down systematically, but there was a clear conviction that the Holy Spirit wants to use me or partner with me to do his work in the world. Somehow, God does not need me to accomplish his purposes and also delights in my desire to be used by him. 

The Hardest Thing to Do in Ministry Is Hold Space for God to Do What Only He Can Do

Here is what I’m building to: I have learned that the hardest thing I do in ministry is hold space for God to do what only he can do. I am also certain that this is the most important work that I do. I think this is the most important work anyone does in ministry.

It is hard because it is always vulnerable, and it always involves risk. It is vulnerable for me because I have come to a place of conviction that must be named. “I believe God wants to do something right now.” 

And I might be wrong. 

The only way to know if I’m right is to take the risk. And then I have to wait for two things:

1. Does anyone respond?

2. Does God do what I have said I believe he wants to do?

This is vulnerable because it is when I am most aware that I am not in control and I am not God. I know I can preach a sermon that will not completely embarrass myself, at least most of the time. I have quite a bit of control of that. But I also know that I want to see the fire of God more than I want to give a careful sermon or play it safe and just do what I can do in my own strength.

I know that what I am able to give is nowhere near sufficient for the needs of, well, anyone.

I know this because I know my own need for the Triune God himself to meet me with his grace and empowering presence.

I stumbled through this for several years, saying things like: “We need to write checks that will bounce, unless God makes them good.” (I know. No one writes checks anymore.)

This Takes Work!

If you want to be part of ministry that makes a difference for eternity, you have to connect with the Lord in a way that goes beyond your natural ability and giftedness. You have to develop a prayer life, struggle to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit, and risk saying publicly what you believe you have heard.

And then you have to hold space for people to respond and for the Lord to move.

I think doing this is the most important work in ministry and doing it well is one of the key markers of mature Christian leadership. 

Discerning the voice of the Holy Spirit takes practice. And I think it is a skill everyone who is in Christ can learn.

It also has never stopped feeling vulnerable and risky to me. 

This summer, I preached a sermon at Asbury Church, where I sensed the Lord wanted me to invite people to be anointed to do the works Jesus does. I was preaching John 14:12-18, part of which I cited above. I was as confident as I could be that the Lord wanted me to give this invitation. And yet, the moment inevitably came when I had to take the risk and see whether anyone would respond and whether the Lord would move. (You can watch the sermon here.)

The Lord moved in a powerful way. Many people who were present that day said they felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in a special and remarkable way.

It was awesome!

And it is one of the most recent instances of a pattern I’ve noticed.

I have a conviction God wants to move in a particular way. And he wants to use me to speak that to his people. I get to decide whether to speak or not. And then his people get to decide whether they will respond or not. And then those who respond get to see what the Lord will do.

This Never Gets Old and It Never Gets Easy

It never gets old. This space is where I feel the most alive and fulfilled. And it also never stops being challenging in the moment. 

If this is new to you, start small. Ask the Lord for a word for someone you are talking to in a private conversation. Or, pray for someone in private and ask for a word to encourage them. If you sense something, take a risk and share it. Ask them if it makes sense or lands. Taking these kinds of low stakes risks will help tune you in to the Lord’s voice. You may miss it sometimes. You will also begin to experience the Lord himself moving through you to encourage others. And both of you will be so encouraged.

One of the reasons I think this has always been challenging for me is because I am not in charge. If it were easy, or I had a guarantee that I wouldn’t be embarrassed on the front end, then I would be ministering in my own strength. And that is not what I want. 

What a privilege that the Lord wants to partner with us!

I have so much to learn. But at this stage in my life, I think I have learned some things. And this is why I think holding space for God to move is the both the most challenging and the most rewarding part of ministry.

I hope this helps you and is an encouragement to keep wrestling to hold space for the Lord to do what only he can do in the places where you are in ministry.

God bless you!

P.S. Don’t forget to register for the next Underground Seminary event we are having at Asbury with Rev. Andrew Forrest on his new book Love Goes First. It is going to be so fun! Details here.

Kevin M. Watson is a Pastor and the Senior Director of Christian Formation at Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. He is also on the faculty at Asbury Theological Seminary, anchoring the Seminary’s Tulsa, OK Extension Site. His most recent book, Doctrine, Spirit, and Discipline describes the purpose of the Wesleyan tradition and the struggle to maintain its identity in the United States. Affiliate links, which help support my work, used in this post.

John Wesley’s Theology: A Great Question (and Better Answer) about Band Meetings

13 Tuesday May 2025

Posted by in Accountability, Christian Living, Holiness, Methodist History, Teaching, Wesley

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

, , , , , , , , , , , ,

I want to share one of my favorite memories from teaching this semester.

I had the privilege of teaching The Theology of John Wesley, which is one of the core classes at Asbury Theological Seminary this spring. Every student, regardless of degree, must take The Theology of John Wesley to graduate with a Master’s Degree. This is one of the ways Asbury anchors its identity and resists institutional drift. And I love it!

The class also gave me the opportunity to re-read core texts on John Wesley’s theology. First, we read sixty (yes, 60, not 6) of John Wesley’s sermons, including all of the original Standard Sermons. (Whether you want 44 or 52 in the list, they are all in the Collins and Vickers edited volume of Wesley’s sermons!) And we read my colleague Professor Kenneth J. Collins’s John Wesley: A Theological Journey and The Theology of John Wesley: Holy Love and the Shape of Grace. These are both masterful!

The class is a deep dive into Wesley’s theology. It is thorough and has been expertly crafted through decades of experience. I taught the class exactly the way it has been taught by those who have gone before me this semester. I had a blast because I was able to teach in an area I really enjoy teaching. And I was able to continue learning and growing as a follower of Jesus Christ and as a teacher.

Ok, so here is the memory I wanted to share:

One of the places there is always lively discussion, if students are tracking and understanding the material, is around John Wesley’s conviction that one who has experienced justification and the new birth does not commit outward sin. This is based on John Wesley’s reading of the canon of Scripture, particularly passages like 1 John 3:7-10:

Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (ESV)

Collins brilliantly summarizes this in John Wesley: A Theological Journey:

Justification delivers from the guilt of sin, regeneration from its power or dominion, and entire sanctification from its being. Unfortunately, these distinctions are often neglected in contemporary Methodism where a decided “shift” has taken place; that is, freedom from the power of committing sin is attributed not to the new birth, as it should be, but to Christian Perfection, with the result that freedom from the being of sin is then relegated to the afterlife and glory. (190)

The conversation in class around freedom from the power of sin in regeneration led to a great question. I reached out to Professor Collins to get his perspective and his response was so good I asked for his permission to share it with my students and then to share it with all of you here. Here is how I framed the question:

How do I best talk to students about the correct definition and understanding of the new birth in connection with the band meeting, which both has a prerequisite of the new birth (and more), and weekly questions connected to sin.

I.e., if a students says, If someone does not commit outward sin after they receive justification and the new birth, why are the band meeting questions focused around sin? (I.e., “What known sins have you committed since we last met?”)

Here is Dr. Collins’s reply:

First of  all,  given the small numbers of people in the band meetings there may not be many responses to the weekly, sin-probing questions among the children of God, but there will likely be at least some responses over time.  Real Christians do at times break faith and commit sin of the high hand, so to speak.  The way forward then would be and must be one of repentance, of doing the first works afresh.  So then, when Wesley affirmed that a born again believer is free from the power and dominion of sin (“The Marks of the New Birth,” “The Great Privilege of Those that are Born of God”) he  was not teaching that real Christians would never sin again (a common misunderstanding among my students) but that Christian believers would have grace sufficient to remain faithful and to walk in a trusting and accountable way in the graces of regeneration.   How do we bring all of this together?  How can we summarize this basic and precious gospel truth which Jesus Christ, himself, affirmed (John 8:34-36)  and which John Wesley repeatedly taught?  I offer the following summary of the several elements here, though this language is not Wesley’s but my own.   However, I do believe that such language captures Wesley’s basic meaning.  And so here goes:    “Willful, intentional sin,  breaking faith with Christ,  should be the grave exception in the Christian life and not the rule.”  Our problem today, however, in American Christianity in general, and even at times in Methodism in particular,  is  that we have made sin the rule and grace the exception.  We need to turn this upside down.   Jesus Christ died for far more than to leave people in the bondages of which they are ashamed. 

Second, I think the very great value of  such questions for the saints that played out in the band meetings during Wesley’s lifetime is that they are a wonderful means of grace that ensure that responsibility and accountability will remain in place.   Think of  band members, for example, who are sorely tempted during the week but who in the midst of  that temptation are reminded by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth,  that they will have to confess such a sin (if it is committed) before several trusted and beloved others in just a few days.   At that  point the power of the temptation is broken (1 Cor. 10:13) by the light of the prospect of upcoming fellowship,  accountability and love.   That’s precisely the point!   In other words, the questions of the band meetings are themselves a wonderful means of grace, used by the Holy Spirit,  as a means by which faithful Christian discipleship is strengthened and lived out to the glory of God.  Put another way, evil and sin love the darkness; however, Wesley made sure that the infrastructure of Methodism in general, and the band meetings in particular would be flooded by an abundance of light in the form of relationship, accountability and the richest love.   In short, those questions are both precious and necessary  for serious Christian discipleship. 

So good!

Want to know more about the band meeting? Scott Kisker and I wrote a book that is designed to reclaim this practice. Check it out here.

Reflections on Teaching and Learning at Asbury

24 Thursday Apr 2025

Posted by in Life, Methodist History, Ministry, Teaching, Underground Seminary

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

, , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

I have previously shared here about my conviction that the culture or atmosphere of the classes I teach is more important than being sure I say all the words I want to say or get all the content in before the class ends. 

I am not sure I always get this right. Actually, I’m sure I don’t always get this right. 

However, I am increasingly confident that students are most impacted by the things that happen in my classes because I intentionally create an atmosphere that is open to the Holy Spirit than they are by the lectures that I give. And maybe even more than that, I find that students are more willing to listen to what I have to say when they are convinced that I care about them. So, I think that prioritizing the culture or atmosphere of classes I teach enhances student learning and engagement with the content of the course.

And I don’t think this goes the other direction.

This week, I’ve found myself reminiscing on the things I saw the Lord do over the past month. I wanted to share a few highlights here.

I taught back-to-back intensives a few weeks ago. And they were such a blessing!

Before my Basic Christian Doctrine class, I put together the second Underground Seminary event. We called it “What They Don’t Teach You in Seminary.” It was led by Rodney Adams, the Executive Director of Asbury Church. Rodney gave a detailed behind the scenes look at how a large church like Asbury is run, the strategic decisions he makes as Executive Director, and the challenges of leading that are particular to a church. (You can read about the original announcement here.)

From my perspective, it was a fantastic success. There were 23 people who came to this meeting, which was immediately before a class that had 16 students. I am encouraged both by such a strong turnout and that the Underground Seminary idea is building energy for what is happening at Asbury-Tulsa. It is energizing to me to have people in the building talking to each other about ministry. I am best at inviting people to things I passionately believe in. Asbury Church is one of those things for me.

During the class itself, I had a sense that the Lord wanted to minister in some ways to the specific people in the room. I am still learning and growing in how to lead and take risks appropriately in this space. These students were so gracious and hungry for Jesus. It was wonderful. The highlight of the weekend for me was checking in with someone at the end of class that I had particularly felt a burden to pray for and they said, “I feel like myself again for the first time in a year.”

Thank you, Jesus!

Several students stayed with members of Asbury Church. On Sunday morning, one of the students ran into the family that had hosted them, and they were so excited to see each other. The hosts sat with the group of students and my family in worship. I was so blessed by such a tangible connection of my church loving my students well and seeing church and academy connected in such a lovely way.

The next week I had another hybrid. First Methodist Church in Tulsa hosted a Holy Spirit Conference that was amazing. I was invited to lead a breakout on spiritual parenting. This is something I have thought a lot about and am passionate about but had not had a chance to teach on to a group of people. I learned a lot in preparing and was challenged and blessed in thinking it through in order to lead the workshop. I drove straight from First Methodist to Asbury to prepare to teach my second intensive in two weeks, The Theology of John Wesley (with 23 students).

I love getting to teach this material. It has been a blessing to systematically read through Wesley’s sermon corpus in a short window of time. (I highly recommend this if you are a leader in a Wesleyan context and have not done this.) The biggest gift for me personally was rereading two great books by one of the academics I most respect, Dr. Kenneth J. Collins. The two books are core texts for The Theology of John Wesley (which is a required class for every major at Asbury Theological Seminary) and I highly recommend them both. Read Collins’s John Wesley: A Theological Journey first to get a sense of Wesley’s life. It is a great book because it unpacks Wesley’s own life and legacy, but from a rich theological lens. 

After you read this, you should read The Theology of John Wesley: Holy Love and the Shape of Grace. In my opinion, this is Collins’s masterpiece. Reading this book in preparation to teach helped me teach with greater clarity than the last time I taught this material. Collins does a masterful job explaining core concepts like justification, the new birth, and entire sanctification. He is fearless in his fidelity to the witness of Scripture and Wesley’s understanding of it.

In addition to this class just being a delight, there were some powerful moments where the Spirit met us. Rev. Graeme Collett, one of the associate pastors at Asbury Church, preached for the Asbury Seminary chapel service on Friday. Graeme has become a good friend and one of the best surprises in our move here to Tulsa. And unlike any sermon I’ve experienced here yet, the Lord gave Graeme a clear word for this specific class at this specific time. (And this is saying something, because we’ve had an embarrassment of riches in terms of the quality of preaching we’ve had in our chapels here!) The highlight was Graeme’s burden to anoint students to remind them of their callings and to seal the work of the Holy Spirit in them. I believe every single person in the room came forward for prayer at some point. Lots of beautiful Holy Spirit tears and ugly crying. It was one of those times you are just aware the Lord is doing deep work in people right before your eyes. I am so thankful for Pastor Graeme’s leadership and for the Spirit’s presence with us in chapel.

We lost track of time and went more than thirty minutes over, but that is one of the special things about these intensives. It didn’t matter! Sometimes people will say in ministry that “the trains have to run on time.” The great thing about the intensives I teach is that there is one train and we’re all on it! So, we got where we were supposed to go when we were supposed to get there.

The second highlight of the Theology of John Wesley hybrid was a word I felt like I got from the Lord on Saturday morning, before the last day of the intensive. As I was praying that morning, I had the impression that the Lord wanted me to start the day by inviting people to share testimonies to what they had seen the Lord do so far in our time together.

I need to admit that this is often hard for me. Sometimes I’m afraid nobody is going to say anything, and it will bomb. I’ve gotten more comfortable holding space as time has gone on, but it is still an area I’m growing in. And I felt that Saturday morning. 

Goodness was I wrong to be concerned. There were so many wonderful testimonies people were ready to share about how the Lord had met them. God is so good!

That part went so well, the Lord nudged me to notice the second thing I had written down as I had been praying that morning: 

“Deliverance?”

In part, I think this came from witnessing a powerful deliverance at the Holy Spirit Conference the Wednesday night before my class started. I also think it came from reflecting on how important deliverance ministry was in John Wesley’s own ministry. (For more on this, see Dr. Peter J. Bellini, Thunderstruck! The Deliverance Ministry of John Wesley Today )

I gave what felt like a pretty timid invitation to receive prayer for deliverance if someone felt like they needed it. I am not going to go into details here for a variety of reasons, except just to say that the Father, again, showed me His desire to communicate with His children. I also experienced the power and authority of Jesus Christ in a deeper way that I don’t think I can adequately express. It was just a blessing.

I have so much to learn. One thing that I have found really helpful is thinking about my classes as laboratories. Here is what that image means to me: in a lab, you do something real but you also reflect on it and can interrogate the experiment itself. So we can meet in a small group in my Wesleyan discipleship class and talk authentically about the state of our souls. And we can also then ask how the conversation felt, what could we do differently? Was there something that felt unhelpful or could have been more helpful? Lowering the stakes and explicitly thinking of the time together in class as a learning environment gives permission to make mistakes and raises the expectation for pursuing excellence. I love that combination.

I’ve seen this with prayer for healing in my classes. I’ve seen this with seeking to hear the Lord’s voice and be guided by the Holy Spirit. And I’ve seen it in lively classroom conversations about deep matters of theology. It is challenging. And it is fun.

I can’t wait to see what the Holy Spirit does next!

P.S. Did you know that I am launching a Fellowship Program at Asbury Church? We are hiring two Fellows that will be paid full-time positions, with benefits. Starting this August. More details about the Fellowship Program and how to apply here.

God’s Inclusive Love Excludes Sin

12 Wednesday Feb 2014

Posted by in Christian Living, Holiness, Ministry

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

, , , ,

Do you ever read something and find yourself actually nodding your head in agreement, or responding to the author out loud? My friends and family will be relieved to know that I very rarely do this. Last night, however, I would have responded out loud when I read James Bryan Smith’s chapter “God is Holy” in The Good and Beautiful God. The only reason I didn’t was because I was reading the book while giving an exam and my students would have shushed me.

As I read this chapter, I found myself wishing that I could have every single Christian read it. The piece is excellent, not because it is new or edgy, but because it states basic Christian truth with profound clarity.

In the previous chapter, “God Is Love,” Smith emphasizes the scandal of God’s grace. God loves sinners “as they are, and not as they should be” (98). He further argues that it is not sin but self-righteousness that separates us from God (102). The chapter does a great job of emphasizing the good news that God’s love for us is constant, whether we are worthy of it or not. And this applies to everyone. (By the way, I highly recommend the entire book, as well as the other two books in the series.)

In the next chapter, Smith addresses a misunderstanding of the truth that God is love, and loves sinners with reckless extravagance: “God does not care about our sin” (116). Smith writes, “In our day you are just as likely to hear a person tell you that their god is a cosmic, benevolent spirit who never judges, does not punish sin and sends no one to hell. This ‘teddy bear’ god has become a very fashionable alternative to the wrathful god of days gone by” (116). The problem is that “the cushy, fuzzy god is neither biblical nor truly loving.” Here, Smith cites H. Richard Niebuhr’s well-worn phrase from The Kingdom of God in America, “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”

Smith then points to some of the inadequate theologies that follow from a desire to avoid a wrathful God. I will let one of the most piercing passages in the chapter speak for itself:

Albrecht Ritschl (1822-1889) did not like the notion of a wrathful God. Ritschl concluded, ‘The concept of God’s wrath has no religious value for the Christian.’ So he reinterpreted the meaning of wrath. Wrath is the logical consequence of God’s absence, and not God’s attitude toward sin and evil. A lot of people liked this because it depicted a god who is above getting angry. This passive-aggressive god just gets quiet. (119)

We need God to care about sin and evil. If God simply becomes distant, then we are hopeless when faced with the enormity of sin and death.

The basic argument that Smith makes is that our understanding of both God’s love and God’s wrath are primarily derived from the most emotive and irrational connotations that these words have. For Smith, God’s love is more like a parent’s love toward a child than a teenager’s infatuation with a peer. And “in the same way that God’s love is not a silly, sappy feeling but rather a consistent desire for the good of his people, so also the wrath of God is not a crazed rage but rather a consistent opposition to sin and evil” (120).

Smith repeatedly emphasizes in the chapter that God is both “kind and severe. We cannot have one without the other” and that this is “very good news” (118). It is good news because God loves us so much that he is completely opposed to anything that harms God’s beloved people. God loves us without condition, but hates sin because sin threatens and eventually brings our destruction.

He makes an important distinction between God’s love and wrath. “Wrath is not something that God is but something that God does. While it is correct to say that God is holy, it is not correct to say that God is wrathful… Holiness is God’s essence… Wrath is what humans experience when they reject God. And it is a necessary part of God’s love” (123).

Smith suggests that we should not want a god who says, “‘It’s cool. Don’t sweat it. Everybody sins, just do it without the guilt, dude. Guilt stinks. Just have a good time!’ This god does not love me. Being soft on sin is not loving, because sin destroys. I want a God who hates anything that hurts me. Hate is a strong word, but a good one. Because the true God not only hates what destroys me (sin and alientation) but also has taken steps to destroy my destroyer, I love him” (125).

Finally, Smith brings his conversation back to the beginning – God’s unconditional love for us. He considered a conversation he had with a woman who heard a sermon he preached on God’s scandalous, unconditional love for us exactly as we are right now and she understood his sermon to mean that sin did not matter and she could simply continuing sinning without feeling guilty. Here is how Smith concludes the chapter:

It occurred to me that perhaps she needed first to hear that she was loved unconditionally before she could address the issue of sin. This is counterintuitive, but I believe it is right. We assume that wrath comes before grace, but that is not the biblical way. God’s first and last word is always grace. Until we have been assured that we are loved and forgiven, it is impossible to address our sinfulness correctly. We will operate out of our own resources, trying to get God to like us by our own efforts to change. God’s first word is always grace, as Barth said. Only then can we begin to understand God’s holiness, and ours. (127)

This is the gospel! Our efforts to change are not enough and can never secure God’s approval. But the good news is that God already loves us. God already offers us forgiveness, healing, and redemption.

Appreciating the relationship between God’s unconditional love and God’s utter opposition to all that harms us is essential for all Christians. It seems to me that United Methodists are currently failing to adequately maintain both sides of this good news. It is not sufficiently Christian to be in favor of either a god whose inclusive love is incapable of excluding sin and evil or a god whose holiness leads people to live in shame.

I’m not sure that these actually represent the positions of any significant groups of United Methodists. Rather, this is how United Methodists (and many other Christians) misrepresent each other’s positions. One side accuses the other of failing to offer the world a God whose love is radically inclusive of all people and is not full of anger and judgment. Another side accuses the other of failing to offer the world a God who has standards for right and wrong actions and attitudes.

I do occasionally hear these views expressed by students and pastors. Much more frequently I hear people simply talking past each other. In general, I think if you pressed people on both sides of the theological spectrum, you would find that most believe that God loves creation, and particularly those created in the divine image, with reckless abandon, perfectly. And I think most people believe that God wants to free us from the things that bind us to the ways of sin and death. The disagreement is about whether particular actions, ideas, or attitudes constitute sin.

The problem is not that one side is in favor of sin in order to be more inclusive, while the other side is in favor of exclusion in order to protect God’s holiness or our own. The problem is that neither side does a good enough job of emphasizing both God’s radical love for broken, hurting, and sinful people as well as God’s complete rejection and opposition to sin and evil, whether it is expressed through outward actions or inner dispositions, or individually or structurally.

1 John, to give an example from Scripture, only makes sense when we hold both God’s inclusive love together with God’s complete rejection of sin:

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father – Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
– 1 John 1:5-2:2

God’s love towards each one of us is unconditional. Have you allowed that truth to sink into every corner or your life, or are you still trying to clean yourself up for God, to earn your acceptance? Are you willing to be desperately dependent on God’s grace and not your own goodness?

God hates sin because God loves us. Are you allowing God’s grace to free you from everything that keeps you from the life for which you were created? Will you allow the amazing grace of God to forgive you of the ways you have sinned and are sinful? Will you allow God to break the power of those canceled sins?

God is holy. God refuses to make compromises with sin and death. And God is able to make us holy. The offer of holiness is not a threat. It is a precious promise.

Being Open-minded is Overrated

13 Thursday Dec 2007

Posted by in Ministry

≈ 7 Comments

Tags

, , , ,

When I was getting ready to go to seminary, I remember many people giving me the standard don’t lose your faith pitch. I remember wondering why so many people were worried that learning something was going to damage my faith. I also remember thinking it was slightly disturbing that so many people seemed like they would be more comfortable with an uneducated pastor than an educated pastor. It felt like the unexpressed fear was really that their faith couldn’t stand up to close scrutiny.

I went to seminary figuring that I had a lot to learn. I wanted to get as much out of the experience as I could, so I decided to hear people out on every possible subject. I tried to start from scratch. The one exception was that I was going to consider everything as a Christian. In other words, my identity as a follower of Jesus Christ was not up for discussion, because by this point in my life it had become part of who I was – not something I was trying to intellectually dissect.

For the first year and a half of seminary, I felt like open-mindedness was the number one virtue that was preached to me. The biggest sin you could commit, or so it felt, was to view what someone else was doing with a clean conscience as wrong or a sin. Now I want to be clear: I learned a lot during my time in seminary. Taking the time to really try to understand where people were coming from on different sides of controversial issues was very important to my development as not just a pastor, but more broadly, as a Christian. (Though, I also have to admit that I am sure I didn’t do a perfect job of understanding where people were coming from on either side of many controversial issues.)

Nevertheless, I did get to know and become friends with many different people with many different experiences. These were positive experiences for me. But they were not life-changing or life-giving. I know many people would disagree with me on this, but for me, trying to understand where everyone else was coming from was not causing me to grow in my relationship with God. In many ways it was an important step in learning to love my neighbor, but I don’t think that just accepting someone where they are at is the goal of Christ’s command to love your neighbor as yourself. (My goal for my own life is certainly not just to accept myself where I am at.)

The most transformative experience for me in seminary was the result of taking Methodist History and Doctrine and reading John Wesley’s sermons. I realized that this was a person who expressed much of what I intuitively felt about God. I always had a deep sense that the Christian life was a life of trying to give all that I knew about myself to my best understanding of who God was (though even that articulation has been strengthened by Dr. Doug Strong, one of my mentors in seminary). This meant that I expected to grow in my faith throughout my life because my understanding of God and where I was spiritually were both continually changing.

Around the same time that I took Methodist History and Doctrine, I was invited to join a Wesleyan band meeting. This was a group of five men who met weekly to confess their sins to one another, to vocalize the forgiveness we find in Christ, and to pray for one another. It was a powerful group that brought Wesley’s understanding of how to practice Christian faith to life for me. So I came to realize that I was Wesleyan theologically, and I was Wesleyan practically. Or, I could embrace a Wesleyan doctrine and a Wesleyan discipline.

What does all of this have to do with being open-minded? These experiences have led me to the conviction that it is crucial in the postmodern matrix to be able to identify where you are standing. Many people seem to get confused by all of the options that face them and just sort of exist in this plurality of choices. But for me at least, I found that I only had something to say, I only could confidently say I had a contribution to make, once I knew where I was coming from.

In other words, there is a sense in which close-mindedness may be more difficult and more important than being open-minded in the twenty-first century mainline church. Now, I would not take this to extremes. We are called to love our neighbor, even when we disagree with them. We would never harm those whom Christ died for with our words or our actions. But, do you see what I am saying? I think there is a sense in which we need to know where we stand before we have much of anything to say. I feel like I have something to offer when I talk with another Christian, or someone who is not a Christian because I am speaking not just as Kevin, but I am trying as best as I can to represent the Wesleyan tradition, which I am convinced is the best path to the life that God created us for.

Sometimes in our efforts to be open-minded we forget that we actually believe something is true about the world.  It seems that in far too many places the church has lost its passion for transforming the culture that it is sent in mission to, and I can’t help but wonder if that is because we have become so open to anything and everything that we have lost our voice.  We just don’t know that we have anything to say.

What are your thoughts or reactions? I would love to hear your response.